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Financial Fair Play

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Financial Fair Play

Postby tflags » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:36 pm

I read a few weeks back someone suggested a ban on transfers for teams that unmet Financial Fair Play rulings as further penalties. Shortly thereafter UEFA signaling that such measures where impossible to enforce; transfer registrations falling into FIFA's domain and not the European's.

With the rest of the European clubs feeling the heat of most notably Man City for its reckless spending and runaway success-locally-I can't see the local teams being happy to just avoid such teams at the CL or EL level but loosing grounds in their local leagues. The likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and most notably Man Untd can't be too happy just to avoid City for example in the Champions but loosing to them year after year at the Premier League.

If a ban on transfers can't be imposed as further measures, one possible course of action clubs could take would be to copycat FFP rules to their local leagues, where teams spending more than they take in would not be allowed a license to play that season. An idea Manchester United wouldn't be too unhappy to promote and the rest of the European clubs ready to applaud.
Last edited by tflags on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Financial Fair Play

Postby supra969 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:08 pm

i wouldnt back ffp the big clubs will go bigger and the small clubs will go smaller let that alone the fact that UEFA allways favor certian clubs in many ways
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Re: Financial Fair Play

Postby MUTU » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:37 pm

supra969 wrote:i wouldnt back ffp the big clubs will go bigger and the small clubs will go smaller let that alone the fact that UEFA allways favor certian clubs in many ways


By forcing the good majority of the biggest clubs in Europe (which are in the red) to spend less money, it will mean that they will poach less players from average clubs and societies in theory I see the gap being bridged. Let me bring an example. Goetze is worth around 35 million. How many clubs will afford to buy him and still remain profitable? Not many. Which means he is less likely to move, and as a result will more likely leave on a free.
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Re: Financial Fair Play

Postby gastarana » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:36 am

Here is some info about la liga BBVA(spanish without subs)
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Re: Financial Fair Play

Postby Noel » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:28 pm

The problem with FFP is that the big clubs get bigger and the small clubs continue to shrink. I'm sick and tired of seeing the same old clubs compete in the Champions league. Whilst its easy to have a go at Man City at least they're spending their own money.

How can it be fair that the following clubs are allowed to build up such massive debts and still be allowed to compete ?

Club Debt
1. Manchester United £716m
2. Chelsea (Limited) £701m
3. Valencia C.F £501m
4. Liverpool £351m
5. Real Madrid £296m
6. FC Barcelona £273m
7. AS Roma £271m
8. Schalke 04 £234m
9. Arsenal £203m
10. Fulham £198m

Why isn't Platini doing something about this or is he afraid of taking on the big established clubs. Maybe he's hoping Merkel will bail them out :lol:
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Re: Financial Fair Play

Postby uzi716 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:26 am

I don't think debts should completely restrict transfers for those clubs. UEFA should establish some kind of payment plan that says they have to pay a certain percent of their debt each year until its gone, the penalty for not paying on time could be no transfers that period or something. Teams like Arsenal and Liverpool I feel don't deserve to be punished that much, Arsenal is still trying to pay off Emirates stadium and they actually turn profits every year. Liverpool with new ownership is finally starting to make some money. Also, penalizing teams like Fulham and Schalke would cripple them, they just can't compete.

The real restrictions should be put on the teams who don't turn a profit every year, teams like Chelsea and City. Those teams should feel the wrath of reckless spending. These types of teams should be forced to sell players and cut their budget if they continue to lose money, that is fair.
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Re: Financial Fair Play

Postby MUTU » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:15 am

@uzi716: very well written!

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Re: Financial Fair Play

Postby tflags » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:45 pm

MUTU wrote:I think Mancini was too worried about Rummenigge mentioning Man City in regards to UEFA Financial Fair Play to actually find time to read about it and realise that on the course of a few years they will need to sell at least 3/4ths of their players if they want to be allowed to even compete in the Champions League.


One word from the accounting corner. I do believe they have their backs against the wall, precisely for the reasons you just mentioned. City doesn't like (or is not able to) sell at a loss. A matter Bayern of all entities know pretty well given last transfer season's experience with them.

The thing is I believe most people feel that a 200 million loss is due to transfer prices and that would be a yes & no situation. When you spend 40 million for a dude you do not incur in a 40 million loss. You do, however, amortize that amount in x number of years (sorry, not an accountant and much less a football one.)
By selling a player, and finding out that none can make the usual 40 million purchases any longer (look at the Tevez case for example) City would incur in a straight period loss for whatever you undersell him for. I am willing to bet this, in their case, will be huge as they are not a breeding team by any stretch. There is no amortization of the loss; it goes right to their bottom line.

My point is selling players for City is not a viable course of action. That is because no other team have the purchase power to pay what they did for recent stars. Those that do currently selling their ancestors' names and crests in watches to meet FFP rulings.

Selling the big kahunas at a loss will only mean writting off that loss right away instad of a percentage period after period. Selling the less known Tourés will do little impact in their bottom line-a salary unloading won't match that of their more expensive team mates.

Short version of this post is: They are screwed.
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Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby michel » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:59 pm

Hi everyone,

I would like to open a small debate here about Financial Fair Play and its application in Europe.

At my blog, I take the case of PSG and predict that UEFA won't apply rules as one would expect, which will penalize Bayern and its fans.

I would like to know what you think about it.
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Re: Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:05 pm

I'll read your article later, but I think that clubs will find loopholes anyway. It will slow them down and stop them from buying a whole new team in one month, but they will still buy players they can't afford. Just not as much as they're doing today.
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Re: Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby Firefox1234 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:09 pm

michel wrote:Hi everyone,

I would like to open a small debate here about Financial Fair Play and its application in Europe.

At my blog, I take the case of PSG and predict that UEFA won't apply rules as one would expect, which will penalize Bayern and its fans.

I would like to know what you think about it.


I always felt there was no such thing as a perfect solution for this big spending in football but i think FFP shud slow down the spending but in our world sadly even when you try to make things equal it can still be unfair :P
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Re: Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby quaazi » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:55 pm

It will fail if there's no will to enforce it. Right now, Bayern has the interesting position of having Rummenigge as the chairman of the ECA, which can in turn pressure Platini with the by now well known threats to abandon the highly lucrative Champions League format. The question is - is there a will to force Platini's arm or not, because the majority most certainly do benefit from (or rather, at least are not hurt by) FFP. Loopholes function only if the lawmakers want them to.
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Re: Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby München Minded » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:30 pm

On the one hand, I love the idea that clubs can buy the players they want -- as life nor football are fair. If someone wants to pay for a Messi type player, then so be it. As we saw Barca and Real not make the CL final, it proves not every year is guaranteed to the team that spends the most.

Other the other hand, the price of players are sky high, and mainly because of these teams like chelsea, ManU, ManCity, Real, Barca, PSG... who have billionaire investors and are willing to pay whatever to get any player they want. While teams like Bayern who are able to pay top dollar for anyone simply don't as the board is financially responsible and debt free. And so, I hate every season being outbid by one of these fake plastic teams. Plus we see where teams like Bilbao, dortmund, etc. who want to massively boost a players value in hopes these teams are willing to pay for players at 2 to 3 times their real value.

German teams are required to balance the books or be kicked out of their respective leagues and down into somewhere else. This is good! and also German football is the most watched and best fan base as well, which leagues like the Premiership or La Liga need to learn from.

I think Bayern were hoping that financial discipline would win out on its own while those clubs in massive debt go bankrupt on their own and forced to sell players -- but with billionaire sugar daddies it seems money streams in from other sources (i.e. the billionaire's other companies -- like abramovich's oil empire) -- and so these teams don't seem punished. I think financial fair play needs to happen -- giving extra money to those who balance the books while winning trophies. I think if a billionaire owns your club, you are automatically out of the CL -- because billionaires will just basically buy the **** trophy. there was no justice in chelsea winning, and now again this season, abramoshit is spending massively again to hopefully dominate for several seasons like Barfa did.

Summarizing, the whole **** system is messed up. Face palm on the whole thing. Epic **** fail.
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Re: Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby MaCk0y » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:00 pm

München Minded wrote: think if a billionaire owns your club, you are automatically out of the CL -- because billionaires will just basically buy the **** trophy.


According to the FFP rules, billionaires singing off a club's deficit/debt does not count. The revenue must come from the club (ticket sales, merchandise, marketing, etc)
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Re: Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby München Minded » Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:05 pm

MaCk0y wrote:
München Minded wrote: think if a billionaire owns your club, you are automatically out of the CL -- because billionaires will just basically buy the **** trophy.


According to the FFP rules, billionaires singing off a club's deficit/debt does not count. The revenue must come from the club (ticket sales, merchandise, marketing, etc)


right, and that's why we will never see financial fair play win out. Billionaires will just wipe out club's debt when they spend massively in the transfer market, and prostitute players who only want lots of money will fill their ranks, and we will just see those teams dominate. Bayern have an uphill battle, not to mention the other teams who can't even compete in the CL without being financially solid like Bayern or owned by a billionaire.

oh, that reminds me, any billionaires on this forum besides me wanting to go in on the purchase of Bayern so we can be a prostitute club too? :mrgreen:
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