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Financial Fair Play

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Re: Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby quaazi » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:14 pm

and as such teams can really do whatever the **** they want. Wouldn't be surprised to see PSG call UEFA into French court should UEFA deem their sponsorship deals as circumventionary to the FFP rules and as such denying them buttloads of ad and prize money as a result. And buy the court off, of course. With so much money you can sue whoever whenever whyever.
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Re: Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby Firefox1234 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:20 pm

quaazi wrote:and as such teams can really do whatever the **** they want. Wouldn't be surprised to see PSG call UEFA into French court should UEFA deem their sponsorship deals as circumventionary to the FFP rules and as such denying them buttloads of ad and prize money as a result. And buy the court off, of course. With so much money you can sue whoever whenever whyever.


Thats what Malaga are doing......
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Re: Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby tflags » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:47 pm

quaazi wrote:Wouldn't be surprised to see PSG call UEFA into French court should UEFA deem their sponsorship deals as circumventionary to the FFP rules


I would. There is a thing called jurisdiction, y'know, and I don't think a French court will take too long to admit they don't have it on a European level ruling.

Try the Court of Arbitration, an international body which, by the way, you don't need to be a country to call on. On such high profile cases, I think HARDLY any team will be able to buy them off to be honest. Too many supervisory bodies and all that stuff.
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Re: Financial Fair Play (will not fail! I hope...)

Postby tflags » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:54 pm

I really don't mind whether they make it or not but my real question is, what happens with That CL qualifying spot should they make it? Does it apply automatically to the next runner up or do La Liga get 2+1 one instead of their customary 3+1.
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Re: Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby quaazi » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:52 pm

A French court is more easily buyable and they can ban UEFA's activity in France. That's more than enough to scare UEFA shitless.
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Re: Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby lau03143 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:01 pm

quaazi wrote:A French court is more easily buyable and they can ban UEFA's activity in France. That's more than enough to scare UEFA shitless.


It's not really. UEFA and FIFA have shown that they don't consider the laws of the land when they put in place their own rulings.

Example being, Sion in the 2011/12 season where they were knocked out of Europe by UEFA for fielding an ineligible player, even though a Swiss court had ruled that the same player was eligible.
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Re: Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby quaazi » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:19 pm

Big difference between the Swiss and the country that will host the next Euros.
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Re: Financial Fair Play (will not fail! I hope...)

Postby MoFattal » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:01 am

I don't think La Liga would have a qualifying spot removed. They will probably give to the 5th ranked team. I'm really sorry for Malaga, because they are playing some nice football at the moment and the players don't deserve this. However, that's the risk of getting a careless owner to run the club. Their team this season is way better than the much higher-costing one assembled right after the club purchase.
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Re: Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby tflags » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:27 am

quaazi wrote:A French court is more easily buyable and they can ban UEFA's activity in France. That's more than enough to scare UEFA shitless.


I think we covered this before, didn't we? THEY DON'T HAVE JURISDICTION. Sorry, this can be frustrating sometimes. Anyhow, just before you get accepted by UEFA, you must agree to the jurisdiction of a proper international body in case you decide to take things legal. Beign that the case, you don't go to a local court if things turn sour out of a sudden.

If you do, they might remind you about article 43, section 1a of the UEFA Club Licencing and FFP Regulations you accepted before:

a) It recognizes as legally binding the statutes, regulations, directives and decisions of FIFA, UEFA, the UEFA member association and, if any, the national league as well as the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in Lausanne as provided in the relevant articles of the UEFA Statutes...
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Re: Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby quaazi » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:51 am

tflags wrote:
I think we covered this before, didn't we? THEY DON'T HAVE JURISDICTION.


A french court easily has the power to ban the activity of any organization on French soil. But if the article you quoted is correct, then sure, UEFA can hope that it holds. But that only covers PSG - what about Qatar Tourism Authority? They have signed no such document and aren't bound by any UEFA laws. Considering their investment could be damaged directly by UEFA, they would surely have the interest to pursue legal avenues.
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Re: Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby tflags » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:25 am

quaazi wrote:But that only covers PSG - what about Qatar Tourism Authority? They have signed no such document and aren't bound by any UEFA laws. Considering their investment could be damaged directly by UEFA, they would surely have the interest to pursue legal avenues.


Me being pricky: UEFA can only make regulations, not laws fortunately. Although an arbitration body (CAS) being the only decisive voice here, as in no appeals, might feel a lot stronger than any law known to men.

As to Qatar and whoevs, sure, they can pursue all the legal courses of action they see fit. But you are confusing UEFA with the real/alleged aggressor, PSG in this example. QTA may stop their yearly payments citing breach of contract (if that is the case,) withhold further payments, retire their name if appropriate, and even sue for compensation. But the party whom they hold a contractual agreement with is PSG, not UEFA.

You can't go and sue the local police for arresting somebody you just paid to advertise your name in public and he did so while trespassing EDIT private property for example.
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Re: Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby BayernLove » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:30 am

How I feel about the above discussion:
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Re: Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby Firefox1234 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:36 am

If PSG was to take legal action against UEFA wouldn't that only anger UEFA, good luck having any Ligue 1 team in UEFA competition again.....
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Re: Financial Fair Play (will not fail! I hope...)

Postby tflags » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:37 am

One of the topics most people argue will make FFP fail is a lucrative owner bankrolling their team by overpricing their sellables, mainly sponsorship deals. Here are some Q&As on the topic, from the more informed guys:

Q: What's to stop a wealthy owner from simply doing a bogus deal between one of his other companies and his club to inflate revenue? For example, an owner could sign a $200 million sponsorship deal between his ball-bearing company and his club and they'd instantly have all this extra money to spend.

A: Many point to the very lucrative sponsorship deal that Manchester City signed with Etihad, an airline that happens to be owned, like City, by Sheikh Mansour as an example of this. UEFA is pretty vigliant here. The regulations say that sponsorship deals will be "benchmarked" against those struck by other clubs. So, for example, if Barcelona has a $50 million sponsorship agreement with someone and it's the highest in the world, then a smaller club with less reach than Barca can't very well claim a $200 million deal. Or, rather, UEFA will calculate only a proportion of that and assume the rest is bogus or a covert "gift" from the owner.

Thiago Silva signed with PSG for a transfer fee reported to be around 42 million euros.
UEFA has made it very clear that it has closed all loopholes in terms of getting around the FFP regulations. This includes other types of transactions between a club and "related" companies. Again, using City as an example, the club can't sell a pen to one of Mansour's other companies or Mansour himself for $100 million. Or, rather, City could, but only the benchmarked value of the pen would count toward FFP.


Q by the way is Gabriel Marcotti, A is Michel Platini.
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Re: Financial Fair Play will fail

Postby quaazi » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:46 am

tflags wrote:As to Qatar and whoevs, sure, they can pursue all the legal courses of action they see fit. But you are confusing UEFA with the real/alleged aggressor, PSG in this example. QTA may stop their yearly payments citing breach of contract (if that is the case,) withhold further payments, retire their name if appropriate, and even sue for compensation. But the party whom they hold a contractual agreement with is PSG, not UEFA.

You can't go and sue the local police for arresting somebody you just paid to advertise your name in public and he did so while trespassing EDIT private property for example.

Well I hope you're right. All this, of course, is assuming UEFA will even take action in regards to the bloated sponsorship deal.
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