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[2008-05-12] Zenit St. Petersburg vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the UEFA Europa League (UEFA Cup) matches.
 

Zenit vs Bayern

Zenit reach the final
4
31%
Toni scores a goal with this private parts and Bayern go though
9
69%
 
Total votes : 13

Postby fcb 4eva » Fri May 02, 2008 1:08 am

I think we're missing Altintop, he's a crucial player for us imo and he has been sorely missed since his injury.


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Postby chori123 » Fri May 02, 2008 2:55 am

Yes, i think Altintop was a key player for us.. I think Schweini felt the pressure of replacing him..
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Postby elcalifornio » Fri May 02, 2008 7:00 am

Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Lell, Lucio, were terrible. Kahn was injured and had no business playing the game. Bayern isn't strong enough to survive in Europe and that is mainly because there have been too many defensive mistakes. Zenit played like a Prem team passing the ball flawlessly and running right past the Bayern defense. Lahm looked like an amateur at times and Schweini has to leave already. He has no ideas, cant advance play, and makes mistakes that baffle the mind.

There is a a lot to do over the summer and Uli better get to it instead of being an arrogant a## because Bayern are Deutscher Meister again.
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Postby kevh26 » Fri May 02, 2008 9:49 am

don't agree with lucio... Demichelis had a stinker!!!

Schweini didn't have any ability to beat the full backs, he was trying to do it from speed and power alone, that's not going to work against them, he was completely flat!

Klose was basically garbage... absolute garbage


sosa on the other hand, looked promising from what i saw of him, his passing is quick, direct and he can do it under pressure, definitely should have stated instead of van bommel, cos he porduced nothing!
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Postby MaCk0y » Fri May 02, 2008 10:13 am

I cannot understand Hitzfeld tactics though. He always replaces Ze Roberto instead of VBM. Ze Roberto is more attack minded and has more creativity and dribbling skills than VBM. Podolski shoud have replaced VBM not Ze Roberto.
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Postby kevh26 » Fri May 02, 2008 10:36 am

there's actually been a couple of times in europe when i doubted hitzfelds tactics...look a the bolton game, 2-0 up, ribery was destroying them, and he took him off!!!
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Postby MUTU » Fri May 02, 2008 11:34 am

I've watched Bayern through good and bad, but I don't think I remember watching them getting as humiliated as they were yesterday. Way too much overconfidence, very little motivation and determination, and physically weaker.
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Postby MaCk0y » Fri May 02, 2008 12:51 pm

fcb 4eva wrote:Can you imagine next year against Barca etc.....

I can only think they're not 100% arsed about this tourni and will show more heart next year.

But truely this is an embarassment, its disgusting :oops: :oops: :oops:


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If Bayern plays like this against Barcelona it would be a one man show from Messi. :?
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Postby FCBinNYC » Fri May 02, 2008 3:16 pm

Micho pulled a hamstring in the game yesterday which undoubtedly contributed to some of the crap. I definitely agree that taking Ze out was a mistake, I know Hitzfeld likes Van Bommel for being our "aggressive leader" or whatever but yesterday he was just Amish. You could tell he was a yellow away from suspension. I'm just pissed because Advocaat had us figured out, you know he told them just to get forward and have someone lurking right outside the box at all times, and it reaped huge rewards for them. Hitzfeld's lack of a response to that proves that he's got to go. I love the guy, but his time has come. As many of you have said, the same old tactics over and over just aren't working in Europe, and I hope Klinsmann has been doing his homework because obviously Hitzfeld did not in this case. It's a shame, but at least Toni apologized to us. Still sucks though...
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Postby fcb 4eva » Fri May 02, 2008 6:47 pm

I'd never critisise Hitzfeld as he's the best manager have had imo, done a fantastic job but I agree we need more modern tactics brought in, especially in europe.


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Postby Jorge » Fri May 02, 2008 6:50 pm

I remember bringing the point that Hitzfeld does not have a clue here in the forum early in the season and some people jumping over me. IMO the problem is not pointing out what player under-performed and what player is having a string of ineffective games, the problem is the team as a whole, the tactics and how predictable it is.

Bayern could not have played a more boring and ineffective football with all those aerial crosses going straight to Zenit tall defense. Some are blaming Bayern defenders but Zenit's midfielders moved so freely that little could be done in the final line.

Besides a big overhaul tacticwise Bayern needs a real CMF next season if they want to match up with Man U, Milan or Chelsea. Neither Van Bommel or Ze Roberto are up for the task, with Ribery unable to come and help defensively (he is purely an attacking midfielder with no clue on how to steal a ball), Schweini struggling to find the form he once had, Sosa with a question mark over his shoulders, Kroos being still too young I do not see that way. Altintop can step in but he plays more on the wings. We need somebody with more presence in front of the defense (Borowski will fall short as well)

Lucio is proving not being too reliable, and I have some doubts if Klose and Podolski are the right companion for Toni. We need a striker that can dribble beside Toni, Podolski is a good shooter and has some speed but is not a good dribbler, Klose showed some good dribbling skills at Bremen but at Bayern he has lost a lot of pace and can not beat any defender these days.

As one said, I hope Klismann is taking notes.
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Postby elcalifornio » Fri May 02, 2008 7:20 pm

Hitzfelt had no tactical advancement agenda for any player this season. Bayern has looked clueless many times this season and advanced only on quality difference. Zenit was too good to phone it in and Klinsi better have some tactical plans other than being a motivator cause his ace in the hole is coaching the national team now.
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Postby DS17 » Fri May 02, 2008 8:07 pm

elcalifornio wrote:Hitzfelt had no tactical advancement agenda for any player this season. Bayern has looked clueless many times this season and advanced only on quality difference. Zenit was too good to phone it in and Klinsi better have some tactical plans other than being a motivator cause his ace in the hole is coaching the national team now.


Completely agree (as someone who has seen almost every Bayern game this season). Nice to have here guys who think just like me. 8)
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Postby walter » Fri May 02, 2008 10:29 pm

Jorge wrote:I remember bringing the point that Hitzfeld does not have a clue here in the forum early in the season and some people jumping over me. IMO the problem is not pointing out what player under-performed and what player is having a string of ineffective games, the problem is the team as a whole, the tactics and how predictable it is.

Bayern could not have played a more boring and ineffective football with all those aerial crosses going straight to Zenit tall defense. Some are blaming Bayern defenders but Zenit's midfielders moved so freely that little could be done in the final line.

Besides a big overhaul tacticwise Bayern needs a real CMF next season if they want to match up with Man U, Milan or Chelsea. Neither Van Bommel or Ze Roberto are up for the task, with Ribery unable to come and help defensively (he is purely an attacking midfielder with no clue on how to steal a ball), Schweini struggling to find the form he once had, Sosa with a question mark over his shoulders, Kroos being still too young I do not see that way. Altintop can step in but he plays more on the wings. We need somebody with more presence in front of the defense (Borowski will fall short as well)

Lucio is proving not being too reliable, and I have some doubts if Klose and Podolski are the right companion for Toni. We need a striker that can dribble beside Toni, Podolski is a good shooter and has some speed but is not a good dribbler, Klose showed some good dribbling skills at Bremen but at Bayern he has lost a lot of pace and can not beat any defender these days.

As one said, I hope Klismann is taking notes.


I could not agree more with you on this one. I've said it many times too...Hitzfeld is the main problem, he is too old school and on top of that he has always considered himself a mathematician of football tactics, ironically, it turns out almost all great mathematicians stop contributing anything to the field past their 40's...you don't get team chemistry by adding numbers and stats...

In situations of pressure the team is too damn predictable, its either a cross into the box from the fullbacks or a long ball into the box from a CM hoping that one of our strikers will flick the ball into the path of a teammate...

I know a few people are going to cringe their teeth...but I actually liked Magath better (NO HATE MAIL PLEASE), at least the midfield was playing better and he was not as conservative as Hitzfeld...just look at how well MVB played last season, in a more attacking role too, compared to this season...yes, we ended up finishing in fourth place (even after Hitzfled taking over), although we had a good CL run finishing top in the group and knocking out Real to later loose to the eventual champions, but I wonder if Hitzfeld without Toni and Ribery would have managed the championship this year...Magath on the other hand is fighting four a UEFA Cup spot with a very modest team...

Not that I think we need Magath back, I'm just using him to illustrate a point, hopefully Klinsmann will be just what the doctor recommended...
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Postby MaCk0y » Sat May 03, 2008 10:15 am

Anyone looked at the statistics?

"So where do Bayern stand after last summer’s spending spree and team rebuilding? The Bavarians failed to win any of their last five UEFA Cup fixtures, and conceded 19 goals in 14 matches. By comparison, FCB have let in only 18 goals in 30 Bundesliga outings. “We’ve not been as strong in Europe as we have been in the Bundesliga,” Hitzfeld concluded."
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