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Official generic DFB-Pokal discussion thread

Discussions on the German Cup matches.
 

Re: Official generic DFB-Pokal discussion thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:55 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:
#12 wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote:Well, well, well. Bremen =D> Who would've thought? That's our toughest potential opponent out of the way.


Forgetting Dortmund there, aren't we? ;)


Nah, I don't forget things. We'll take down Dortmund as long as it's Pep here and Tuchel there. Real deal vs. one who aspires to be.

Gladbach have been our bogey team for years, beyond Pep. The last time we faced them in Pokal it was incredibly unpleasant, if not for Neuer's penalty save.

Exactly. While Dortmund >>>> Gladbach, Tuchel is a Pep disciple and hasn't reached the same level of mastery in possession football as our coach has. Gladbach is a completely different proposition and we struggle against them.

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Re: Official generic DFB-Pokal discussion thread

Postby #12 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:34 pm

So you actually believe in some kind of curse?! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry, I'm just trying to get this: when we **** up against BMG, there's nothing he can do - as all losses are player initiated... Whioch wpuld be a fair assumption... But how can it then be his achievement only when we beat others? ;)

I'm not trying to bash here, I sincerely want to understand...

I think he's great at scouting, possession-style of play suits us, he's very thorough and the players seem to like him - but his defense,experimenting, high-line and set pieces (offense and defense) suck...
Since you belong to the reasonable fraction here, I trust you can make me understand without insults... :?
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Re: Official generic DFB-Pokal discussion thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:41 pm

#12 wrote:So you actually believe in some kind of curse?!

Sorry, I'm just trying to get this: when we **** up against BMG, there's nothing he can do - as all losses are player initiated... Whioch wpuld be a fair assumption... But how can it then be his achievement only when we beat others? ;)

I'm not trying to bash here, I sincerely want to understand...

I think he's great at scouting, possession-style of play suits us, he's very thorough and the players seem to like him - but his defense,experimenting, high-line and set pieces (offense and defense) suck...
Since you belong to the reasonable fraction here, I trust you can make me understand without insults... :?

You mean me? I picture it like a Pokemon style thing: Fire beats Water, water beats grass, grass beats Water. Pep does great against possession teams but not so great against counter attacking teams. Quite simple really. Yes, the high line is a concern, we've spoken about it a million times, but it's the price we pay for being a full-attacking, high-pressing, beautifully-playing team which scores 3+ goals against the great majority of teams. Could we be a little more tactically flexible and drop back when it's necessary? Sure, but perfect coaches are a rare (nonexistent) commodity, and there is really no one out there better than Pep available at the moment.

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Re: Official generic DFB-Pokal discussion thread

Postby #12 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:51 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:and there is really no one out there better than Pep available at the moment.


QFT...

About the rest: dropping back would not be a guarantee either and it wouldn't make him perfect... But it might help... It's one of the things he NEVER tried - and there are few... ;)
And it would show some signs of prospect IMHO...
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Re: Official generic DFB-Pokal discussion thread

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:27 pm

Bochum away

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Re: Official generic DFB-Pokal discussion thread

Postby MillaMjau » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:28 pm

Not bad. 8)
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Re: Official generic DFB-Pokal discussion thread

Postby MillaMjau » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:29 pm

Das Runde muss ins Eckige!
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Re: Official generic DFB-Pokal discussion thread

Postby Lukas » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:30 pm

Well well, look who it could have been, if they could beat teams in their own league as well as BL teams...
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Re: Official generic DFB-Pokal discussion thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:33 pm

#12 wrote:Sorry, I'm just trying to get this: when we **** up against BMG, there's nothing he can do - as all losses are player initiated... Whioch wpuld be a fair assumption... But how can it then be his achievement only when we beat others? ;)


I wouldn’t say the reasonable people here ever put the full credit for good or bad performances to exclusively the coach or the players. Pep always plans for a perfect game where the ball stays in the opponent’s half for 90 minutes. Well of course that never exactly works 100% and that’s the main (the only, really) weakness in his game. That the team would more often than not be too surprised and not ready when the opponent capitalise on the counterattack. Barcelona and Gladbach stand out as really the only two teams in the world who can well expose that weakness.

As PunkCapitalist said water will always beat fire no matter how strong fire is against everything else. The fact that Pep can’t perfect the defensive system to repel every counter attack is an underlying weakness which I think he will never ever fully master, but he puts all his chips on attack for better or worse. That being said that’s the price I’d be willing to pay for a nearly always dominating performance, as with the first half in Gladbach. That’s why I’d rather put Lewandowski and Muller on the sword for that match as opposed to the defensive collapse.
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Re: Official generic DFB-Pokal discussion thread

Postby #12 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:04 am

Well, if we can agree on the one weakness expressing inself in different visible ways, then I'd be with you...
The thing with Barca/Gladbach - well, we can always add one more to that whenever it doesn't work :P There was also Wolfsburg, Madrid... I just think that some coaches adapt more in order to increase their odds... We also wanted the ball in 2013 - but we said **** possession, let 'em have it and tore them wide open... Barcelona are also a possession team... So are Arsenal... Yeah, they lost in Munich, but they also won one... I'm not saying this is the egg of Columbus... It's just that there's always ONE approach, that he changes in nuances - but never to a really surprising extent (and I don't even want him to give up on his beliefs or his conviction... I just beg he were a LITTLE more flexible every now and then...)

And that's - even if I might not be considered reasonable :P - why I blame him often... Of course the players have their share as well...
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Re: Official generic DFB-Pokal discussion thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:16 am

#12 wrote:we can always add one more to that whenever it doesn't work :P


I can't recall other games where our defensive weaknesses were completely done in the way we lost against Barca and Gladbach. We had more losses obviously, sure, but those other losses are from pure lack of luck, terrible finishing, off-days (happens to every team) or one-off occurrences as far as I remember.

And well if you wish he can completely nullify his defensive weakness you're out of luck really, even as his supporter I've come to accept we'd be better off improving the attack even further than moving our high line a few yards back. It's just part of his game.
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Re: Official generic DFB-Pokal discussion thread

Postby #12 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:00 pm

Well, I'd add Wolfsburg and RM at least...

Maybe I'm too traditional... I'm still one of those who claim that offense only wins you games... And of course I like goals, but I can take joy out of great defending as well... And I can get pretty darn ugly if I see bad defending... (hint: Ingolstadt) :P
Just to stay in the metaphor: If you need fire to survive, let's say on a lonely island... And you know that water will always beat you... You don't build your fireplace right next to the water or throw the logs in by yourself... :P :mrgreen: #-o #-o

But yeah, I see what you guys mean... Still: wouldn't it be better to perfect offensive pressing then (which I know cannot be achieved...) instead of being even more offensive? I mean more often than not we already are able to score... ;)
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Re: Official generic DFB-Pokal discussion thread

Postby bastos80 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:46 pm

I see #12 has posted in a thread and it is a discussion about Guardiola.

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Re: Official generic DFB-Pokal discussion thread

Postby #12 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:57 pm

bastos80 wrote:I see #12 has posted in a thread and it is a discussion about Guardiola.

yawn


... which has been going on for a few posts(/pages) already and you are now interfering with just to add less than nothing to it... ;)
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Re: Official generic DFB-Pokal discussion thread

Postby bastos80 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:03 pm

I think I've already said it all.
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