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[2014-05-17] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the German Cup matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Sat May 17, 2014 7:00 pm

Borussia Dortmund will win
5
19%
It will end in a draw
1
4%
Bayern Munich will win
21
78%
 
Total votes : 27

Re: [2014-05-17] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby München Minded » Fri May 02, 2014 6:08 pm

I think Bayern should always strive to win any domestic trophies if we can. Yet, Bayern is in another league compared to the other BuLi clubs, i.e. the Champions League, and I mean metaphorically and physically -- Bayern are above the rest. So it seems like we just focus on the CL only and not domestically. After what happened this season in the CL, then yes - focus all efforts on the DFB Cup. In the future, focus more on the CL imo. If only they scheduled the DFB Cup after the CL final, then it would be awesome -- we could realistically get a treble again. It's just so hard to put our best players to win the DFB Cup, if and when Bayern are in a CL final, especially if we play teams like dortmund in the DFB Cup. This year we can certainly put our best team out. The DFB needs to accomodate teams in the CL like in spain where Real was accomodated.
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Re: [2014-05-17] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby EverFresh » Sat May 03, 2014 4:17 am

Don't think Pep will try anything new, it will be possess possess possess and the team will have to play like men possessed to get any good result. Cannot have any defensive errors and I hope the back line got it out of their system these last couple of weeks. I feel pretty confident about a Bayern win, we have graciously let Dortmund have enough trophies already.
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Re: [2014-05-17] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby Grimnir » Sat May 03, 2014 1:42 pm

Jorsett wrote:Will people think of this season as a bad season if we lose out on the Pokal? Hopefully not. Several records and 3 trophies isn't bad.


For me the Club World Cup should barely be considered for us, and isn't exactly as prestigious as a lot of fans make it out to be considering either European champions or Brazilians win it without problems every year.

München Minded wrote:I think Bayern should always strive to win any domestic trophies if we can. Yet, Bayern is in another league compared to the other BuLi clubs, i.e. the Champions League, and I mean metaphorically and physically -- Bayern are above the rest. So it seems like we just focus on the CL only and not domestically. After what happened this season in the CL, then yes - focus all efforts on the DFB Cup. In the future, focus more on the CL imo. If only they scheduled the DFB Cup after the CL final, then it would be awesome -- we could realistically get a treble again. It's just so hard to put our best players to win the DFB Cup, if and when Bayern are in a CL final, especially if we play teams like dortmund in the DFB Cup. This year we can certainly put our best team out. The DFB needs to accomodate teams in the CL like in spain where Real was accomodated.


Another league than other Bundesliga clubs? Dortmund have been very close to us the last four years and for a good amount of that time they were superior to us. Had Dortmund scored just one more goal at home against Real they'd have overturned a 3-0 deficit in Madrid and it's possible we'd have been facing them in the semis. They actually managed to score against Real and nearly knocked them out for the second time in two years. And this year with so much of their starting 11 plagued by injury the entire season, which only shows the talent in their club. That same team also gave us a beating a few weeks back. We should not be disrespecting other German clubs like that, Dortmund especially shouldn't be underestimated considering their proven abilities the last few years.

Anyways, even if we focus all our efforts on winning this it will be tough. Especially since Guardiola unfortunately is very stubborn. I wouldn't be surprised if we did the same as against Real...pass, pass, pass...stop in their zone instead of taking advantage of a counter and pass some more. And again, to be clear, it's not the players I blame for this as they pretty much have to play as Guardiola tells them.
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Re: [2014-05-17] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby kod2600 » Sun May 04, 2014 8:08 pm

Call me a spoiled fan but when you have a team like Bayern, with similar players that won the treble, + few big names, I can't be happy with just a Bundesliga title this season. Hell, we've won the Bundesliga numerous times with worse line-up (with all due respect).
For me, winning this title will change this season from terrible to just bad...
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Re: [2014-05-17] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sun May 04, 2014 8:16 pm

Yes you are a spoiled fan. We won 3 cups this season (4 if we win Pokal) . Just because we missed one that would have made it the most successful season ever (we made it to semis at least) doesn't make it terrible or bad.
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Re: [2014-05-17] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby Dgro » Sun May 04, 2014 8:50 pm

Given the quality of players we have -- they just won the damn treble and we lost no one of consequence -- and the amount of money Bayern is able to spend versus other Bundesliga teams and Dortmund in particular, I think it's fair to call this season a disappointment if they lose the DFB-Pokal. I wouldn't say that if Dortmund were at full strength but they have had as many injury problems this season as any team in the world. It's not fair to expect a Champions League repeat but it's absolutely fair to demand a domestic cup win under the circumstances
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Re: [2014-05-17] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby Grimnir » Sun May 04, 2014 9:39 pm

MUTU wrote:Yes you are a spoiled fan. We won 3 cups this season (4 if we win Pokal) . Just because we missed one that would have made it the most successful season ever (we made it to semis at least) doesn't make it terrible or bad.


For me I think what disappoints me is not that we win or don't win. Even in years when we haven't won the league for example, I never felt this kind of frustration or disappointment...it's the current tactical situation that seems to suck the effort out of the players and the life out of the match. It's the extreme tiki taka that makes us kill any attempt at a counter, that seems to suck the energy out of the players' attack because all they are told to focus on is passing ad nauseum. If we played the way we did last season or hell back under any manager since Hitzfeld 1.0 I could at least feel "ok" with it and accept it. Our season last year created so many expectations and we were really on our way to reaching our true peek as a club. With some of our best players slowly approaching 30 or crossing over the 30 mark it feels like we're running out of time to pull off something as spectacular as winning the CL back to back, since some of those players will slowly move out of their prime. Guardiola frustrates me. His stubborness and pride and playing a style of football that at times borders on the pointless, and which I consider as holding us back from our actual potential, is what truly disappoints me. Because it's not that we "couldn't" do it fair and square, but that we were essentially held back by these tactics. On that part I don't blame the players at all. I'm proud of them and all they've done for us this year, but its this stubborn style that Pep refuses to abandon. I can only hope that that will change after he promised to try to find more of a balance between our/German style and his. It's just the disappointment of seeing the tactics not complement the team and the way the players know best to play, and so harness the best of their abilities. That's what a manager should do...

Edit: Saying that, though, I'm not sure I'll be that disappointed if we lose the DFB Pokal against Dortmund. They've shown immense resilience and spirit this year with what their squad has suffered and are definitely worthy opponents. At this point I feel like I also have no more illusions about Guardiola possibly changing tactics for big/important matches, so that fantasy is gone I guess. Now I just want to see a real effort and good spirit from our players, and I'd be happy with that even if we didn't win.
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Re: [2014-05-17] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sun May 04, 2014 11:01 pm

Interestingly, now that we are out of the CL this will be Bayern's last game before Lewandowski joins the squad. It will also be Lewandowski's last match for Dortmund. Seems fitting that it should be the two teams against each other.

Hopefully it is a good omen. Gomez had also played his last game for Stuttgart against Bayern (and his last game for Bayern against Stuttgart, coincidentally).
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Re: [2014-05-17] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby München Minded » Mon May 05, 2014 12:11 am

Grimnir wrote:
Jorsett wrote:Will people think of this season as a bad season if we lose out on the Pokal? Hopefully not. Several records and 3 trophies isn't bad.


For me the Club World Cup should barely be considered for us, and isn't exactly as prestigious as a lot of fans make it out to be considering either European champions or Brazilians win it without problems every year.

München Minded wrote:I think Bayern should always strive to win any domestic trophies if we can. Yet, Bayern is in another league compared to the other BuLi clubs, i.e. the Champions League, and I mean metaphorically and physically -- Bayern are above the rest. So it seems like we just focus on the CL only and not domestically. After what happened this season in the CL, then yes - focus all efforts on the DFB Cup. In the future, focus more on the CL imo. If only they scheduled the DFB Cup after the CL final, then it would be awesome -- we could realistically get a treble again. It's just so hard to put our best players to win the DFB Cup, if and when Bayern are in a CL final, especially if we play teams like dortmund in the DFB Cup. This year we can certainly put our best team out. The DFB needs to accomodate teams in the CL like in spain where Real was accomodated.


Another league than other Bundesliga clubs? Dortmund have been very close to us the last four years and for a good amount of that time they were superior to us. Had Dortmund scored just one more goal at home against Real they'd have overturned a 3-0 deficit in Madrid and it's possible we'd have been facing them in the semis. They actually managed to score against Real and nearly knocked them out for the second time in two years. And this year with so much of their starting 11 plagued by injury the entire season, which only shows the talent in their club. That same team also gave us a beating a few weeks back. We should not be disrespecting other German clubs like that, Dortmund especially shouldn't be underestimated considering their proven abilities the last few years.

Anyways, even if we focus all our efforts on winning this it will be tough. Especially since Guardiola unfortunately is very stubborn. I wouldn't be surprised if we did the same as against Real...pass, pass, pass...stop in their zone instead of taking advantage of a counter and pass some more. And again, to be clear, it's not the players I blame for this as they pretty much have to play as Guardiola tells them.


I'm not looking at what dortmund did recently, I'm speaking overall and our entire amount of BuLi titles since the inception of the BuLi. I also was making a point that Bayern shouldn't forget the domestic titles, but we still focus on the CL, where we belong. In recent years dortmund earned their right to be in the CL, but not necessarily among the elite across Europe. dortmund escaped financial ruin barely under a decade ago, and will take several years more of success to be a definitive place as a top club. Schalke had their strong years not to long ago where they were our main rivals, and the same applies with Werder being a strong opponent when they had Ailton and Macoud. So a few years doesn't make dortmund a team among the elite and a constant long term threat to us just because they "showed up" to games like those against Real or made it to a CL final last year. When they do that consistently, and be a top club beside us in the next 5 years, then maybe we can say they are a top team. Everyone thought the same of Werder and Schalke. Bayern have the resources and staying power to show differently.
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Re: [2014-05-17] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby Borusse » Mon May 05, 2014 12:33 pm

Im driving to Berlin for that game. Me and 4 other Dortmund fans bought the tickets for public viewing in Berlin, one of them was there two years ago and said it was a great experience so Im looking forward to it. :P

14 thousand tickets were sold in 2 hours for the public viewing. :D Incredible.
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Re: [2014-05-17] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Mon May 05, 2014 1:30 pm

Looking forward to Lewandowski missing his penalty in the shootout, Matthaeus & Dante style.
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Re: [2014-05-17] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon May 05, 2014 2:25 pm

Borusse wrote:Im driving to Berlin for that game. Me and 4 other Dortmund fans bought the tickets for public viewing in Berlin, one of them was there two years ago and said it was a great experience so Im looking forward to it. :P

14 thousand tickets were sold in 2 hours for the public viewing. :D Incredible.

Yeah because you won. It will suck as an experience for you this time. :P
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Re: [2014-05-17] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby Borusse » Mon May 05, 2014 3:46 pm

:(
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Re: [2014-05-17] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby Tedesco » Mon May 05, 2014 4:07 pm

Don't think it will suck even if losing. The secret is to be drunk already when the match ends. Then the result barely matters.
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Re: [2014-05-17] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Mon May 05, 2014 4:08 pm

Borusse wrote::(

What do you expect? I wish I could tell you to enjoy it, but I can't. To be nice to you, I hope you make the best out of an erstwhile disappointing time :)
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