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[2008-09-24] Bayern Munich vs 1. FC Nürnberg

Discussions on the German Cup matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:43 pm

Bayern Munich will go through to round 3
7
88%
1. FC Nürnberg will go through to round 3
1
13%
 
Total votes : 8

Re: [2008-09-24] Bayern Munich vs 1. FC Nürnberg

Postby MrLinky » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:16 pm

Raphael Sanzio wrote:That's why we need to cash out for a proper DM in the winter break. The 4-4-2 is very good against German teams. But all what the 4-4-2 did for us in Europe was a very close defeat against Getafe (a team Hoeness hadn't heard of!) and a 0-4 defeat against Zenit (a team I hadn't heard of!). So as much as I wanna see Bayern win the German Cup and BL, I think they ought to practice the 3-5-2 more often, to get the hang of it in the CL!



And according to you with the 3-5-2 system and a proper #6 we would definitaly make it to the semi's/final in the CL ?
What makes you so sure this 'old' system no other top european club uses will get us there ?
Wasnt it the 4-4-2 system ManU played that got them to the CL triumph , wasnt it the 4-3-3 system Chelsea played that got them to the final ,
and Barcelona and Liverpool to the semi's ?

Besides that you still didnt explain to me why the 3-5-2 gives the strikers better chances to perform well according to you ?
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Re: [2008-09-24] Bayern Munich vs 1. FC Nürnberg

Postby MrLinky » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:23 pm

shwas55 wrote:what a goal klose



Yes the goal was marvellous , after a great cross by Oddo .
A solid performance by our team until now , Klose and Oddo standing out with great performances , and I cant really say it surprises me that the
whole team is doing better without Van Bommel in the starting XI .
Is the decision to give VB the captaincy turning out to be Klinsi's first mistake ?
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Re: [2008-09-24] Bayern Munich vs 1. FC Nürnberg

Postby thulkazal » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:25 pm

pff so WAY better team without Bommel gosh ....
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Re: [2008-09-24] Bayern Munich vs 1. FC Nürnberg

Postby shwas55 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:43 pm

MrLinky wrote:
shwas55 wrote:what a goal klose



Is the decision to give VB the captaincy turning out to be Klinsi's first mistake ?


Without a doubt
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Re: [2008-09-24] Bayern Munich vs 1. FC Nürnberg

Postby thulkazal » Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:26 pm

We won the game coz Bommel wasnt in first team XD

Solid game ... anyway =D>
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Re: [2008-09-24] Bayern Munich vs 1. FC Nürnberg

Postby Raphael Sanzio » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:30 pm

MrLinky wrote:
Besides that you still didnt explain to me why the 3-5-2 gives the strikers better chances to perform well according to you ?



Yeah about that, the 3-5-2 formation allows Lahm and Lell (Oddo) to be oriented more towards the attack. Ribery can play as a central attacking midfielder, and VB and another proper DM we can get in the winter can play as DMs. This works out great because we can apply pressure on both sides, and the center (something we didn't do against Bremen), since Ribery is gifted in penetrating the defence. At some point with continuous pressure from all sides, the opponent's defence will exhaust and that's high time for Toni and Co. to score. 5 men in midfield is more versatile than 4. That's why. And besides, we can always switch to the 5-3-2 when we're on the defensive. So yeah, a 4-4-2 is a much-favoured formation in Munich, but it hasn't helped us against Zenit nor Getafe. You gotta think outside the BL, mate. And just because Man or Chelsea use different formations doesn't mean we should copy them. They have different players than we do.
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Re: [2008-09-24] Bayern Munich vs 1. FC Nürnberg

Postby Jorge » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:05 am

Just a suggestion: when you use an acronym for Mark Van Bommel use MVB, if you type only VB it can be (Daniel) Van Buyten.
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Re: [2008-09-24] Bayern Munich vs 1. FC Nürnberg

Postby MUTU » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:25 am

Woo! Great match, good goals, everyone played well, including Rensing in goal. He made a pretty good save. What I have to get used to is his playing style, because he rarely clears the ball to a corner... he just clears it towards the defence. That can be very dangerous because an attacker could get to it, but at the same time he could launch a counterattack for us.
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Re: [2008-09-24] Bayern Munich vs 1. FC Nürnberg

Postby MrLinky » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:22 am

Raphael Sanzio wrote:
MrLinky wrote:
Besides that you still didnt explain to me why the 3-5-2 gives the strikers better chances to perform well according to you ?



Yeah about that, the 3-5-2 formation allows Lahm and Lell (Oddo) to be oriented more towards the attack. Ribery can play as a central attacking midfielder, and VB and another proper DM we can get in the winter can play as DMs. This works out great because we can apply pressure on both sides, and the center (something we didn't do against Bremen), since Ribery is gifted in penetrating the defence. At some point with continuous pressure from all sides, the opponent's defence will exhaust and that's high time for Toni and Co. to score. 5 men in midfield is more versatile than 4. That's why. And besides, we can always switch to the 5-3-2 when we're on the defensive. So yeah, a 4-4-2 is a much-favoured formation in Munich, but it hasn't helped us against Zenit nor Getafe. You gotta think outside the BL, mate. And just because Man or Chelsea use different formations doesn't mean we should copy them. They have different players than we do.



I still dont see what we profit from this 3-5-2 system that would bring us the CL glory ?
3 CB plus the 2 full backs ?
-Means Ze or Schweini have to be benched so that Van Buyten gets a place in the starting line-up , doesnt sound very logical to me when
you actually bench our best player so far in this season (Schweini) and Ze who is getting better and better even though he's already 36 .
Ribery as a AM ?
-He is not a typical #10 like Diego is , he's got the quickness and the dribbling skills which benefit him on either side of the pitch but not the
middle , I think he is a lot more useful on the left , besides that he signed a contract which guarantees him the left side in midfield ,
I'm not too sure how he would react to this 'change of plans' by Klinsi .
Yea we saw how good the switching to 5-3-2 worked against Werder , it just makes us more vornable , we conceded 9 (!) goals in 5 matches
in the BL with this system , but lets go ahead and play like that in the CL , I'm sure we would apply a lot of pressure from all sides , Lell can play instead of Ze ,
DVB can play instead of Schweini and maybe we would actually score a goal but I dont wanna know how many we would concede against the likes of Chelsea .
I am thinking outside the BL , mate but there must be a reason that no other top european club plays this system , there must be a reason that
80 % of the clubs all over Europe play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 but sorry I'm sure we can find loads of successful clubs in Chile or Cuba that play 3-5-2 .
I know Klinsmann is all about changes and new ideas but it would be a wise decision to rethink his whole 3-5-2 system , that formation
is just 'out of date' , everybody knows it and Klinsmann should start realizing that as well , its not gonna do us any good not in
the BL and not in the CL .
We got back to 4-4-2 in this match and OHH what a surprise we actually kept a clean sheet , I know Nurnberg is going through a tough time
right now and they're not at their best but if you watched the game you'll know that we looked a lot more solid in the defense and
the visitors didnt produce a single serious threat against our goal , except a Charistead header and a shot which Rense held .
Last edited by MrLinky on Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [2008-09-24] Bayern Munich vs 1. FC Nürnberg

Postby Simunism » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:23 am

Why is Klinsman still startinf with Toni? I wonder how he still didn't notice that he has been useless lately
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Re: [2008-09-24] Bayern Munich vs 1. FC Nürnberg

Postby Raphael Sanzio » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:47 am

MrLinky wrote:
its not gonna do us any good not in the CL and not in the CL .



Have you ever asked yourself why every time we face Milan we get kicked out? Because Ancelotti scanned us, studied our formation. He knows it like the back of his hand! And it's our fault because we use it all the time. The more different formations we can adapt to, be it the 3-5-2 or any other formation, gives us the element of surprise, and better flexebility in the field, so that we can change the formation in the middle of the match the way they see fit. I would like to see Bayern play a traditional 4-4-2 and switch to a 3-5-2, 2-3-5, 4-4-1-1 (ribery can play as second striker), or 4-3-3, or even a 4-6-0 or 3-6-1 (i'd love to see a 3-6-1in Munich). This will drive Ancelotti crazy!! idk I think the only way Bayern can get ahead of other teams is by flexible formation switching and tactics, since other teams like Milan, Inter, Chelsea, ManU, Liverpool have better INDIVIDUAL players, since they pay more! we don't have superstars like them (except Ribery), but we have super team work. btw, Brazil used this formation in 2002 and Argentina in 1986, both winning the World Cup. So I see nothing wrong in it with a great #6. Whaddayathink?!
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Re: [2008-09-24] Bayern Munich vs 1. FC Nürnberg

Postby Simunism » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:01 pm

Well said Raphael! U have a point ! I didnt think of it that way
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Re: [2008-09-24] Bayern Munich vs 1. FC Nürnberg

Postby shwas55 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:41 pm

To have 3-5-2 system you need at least one super DM which we dont have, if you have players like Frings, Silva, Diarra, Gattuso....... then i can see it happening, but who is going to do it in bayern, VB, or lell, or MVB, none of them can hold the midfield.

I thin klinsi wanted to play 3-5-2 from the start and that why he went after Gattuso, but the deal didnt go so i think untill we secure a class DM we should stick to 4-4-2 we really look better playing in that formation, we can try 4-1-2-1-2, 4-3-3.... we can try any formation as long as we have 4 defenders, cuz playing 3-5-2 against teams with players like diego is a suicide
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Re: [2008-09-24] Bayern Munich vs 1. FC Nürnberg

Postby MrLinky » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:45 pm

Raphael Sanzio wrote:
MrLinky wrote:
its not gonna do us any good not in the BL and not in the CL .



Have you ever asked yourself why every time we face Milan we get kicked out? Because Ancelotti scanned us, studied our formation. He knows it like the back of his hand! And it's our fault because we use it all the time. The more different formations we can adapt to, be it the 3-5-2 or any other formation, gives us the element of surprise, and better flexebility in the field, so that we can change the formation in the middle of the match the way they see fit. I would like to see Bayern play a traditional 4-4-2 and switch to a 3-5-2, 2-3-5, 4-4-1-1 (ribery can play as second striker), or 4-3-3, or even a 4-6-0 or 3-6-1 (i'd love to see a 3-6-1in Munich). This will drive Ancelotti crazy!! idk I think the only way Bayern can get ahead of other teams is by flexible formation switching and tactics, since other teams like Milan, Inter, Chelsea, ManU, Liverpool have better INDIVIDUAL players, since they pay more! we don't have superstars like them (except Ribery), but we have super team work. btw, Brazil used this formation in 2002 and Argentina in 1986, both winning the World Cup. So I see nothing wrong in it with a great #6. Whaddayathink?!




:lol:
You are going from 'this formation is great , nothing's wrong with it , we can be successful in the CL with it' to
'Well this formation gives us flexibility , we can use it from time to time' .
Yea exactly , you say it , the last time a team actually won something important with this system was 6 years ago which is a very long period of time in football.
Back in the days when Milan kicked us out of the CL 2 consecutive years we played the 4-4-2 formation , but a different kind of system ,
we used the 'diamond midfiled' , not the system with the 2 DM .
But I do agree with you that flexibility is getting more and more important in modern football and that we have to improve on our tactics
significantly if we wanna be as successful as we were in the CL .
Anyway this has been getting way off topic , nice discussing with you though . :)
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Re: [2008-09-24] Bayern Munich vs 1. FC Nürnberg

Postby Raphael Sanzio » Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:52 pm

Always a pleasure, mate. :)

So what do you think of the economic impact of the US financial crisis? (lol just kidding!!) :lol: :lol:
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