You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

[2011-09-14] Villarreal vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:49 am

Villarreal will win
1
4%
It will end in a draw
1
4%
Bayern Munich will win
21
91%
 
Total votes : 23

Re: [2011-09-14] Villarreal vs Bayern Munich

Postby dambun » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:42 am

quaazi wrote:You don't need to go at my karma just because you disagree with me, you know. Kroos is a burden right now, he forced Müller to play out of position and that means that Müller is under-performing. We've all seen how good Müller is at CAM, and I'd much rather take that instead of the tame shots at goal that Kroos seems to exclusively do nowadays.


How on earth is Kroos a burden???.... He is improving match by match and he helped us defeat Villareal.... He even was UEFA's man of the match last night....

And Everyone knows Mueller is at ease at RAM as much as he is at CAM.... He plays brilliantly at both positions....
You are not the only one who loves Mueller bro, almost every single forum member does so.... But when he performs below par, we should not call Kroos or any other player responsible.... Like I said a few game earlier (FCK game I guess) and you opposed me back then, Thomas is mentally frustrated and desperately needs to score a goal.... It's getting in his mind, and if you review last match's scenes, you'd see that he was less selfless than ever... that's because he badly wanted to score, and probably that's why he underperformed....

All in all, it's nothing serious.... no worries.... I'm sure he'll score soon and will be back to his absolute best form.... Even until then, he is still an irreplaceable jewel in the team....
"" "" "" ""
Time for overhaul!
User avatar
dambun
2010/11 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 5281
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:05 am
Location: Tehran, Iran
National Flag:
Iran
Has thanked: 862 times
Been thanked: 377 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2011-09-14] Villarreal vs Bayern Munich

Postby Element » Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:25 pm

Kroos is good

and it is good to have him in the team
and i think that if he keeps improving especially in tackling , he might start next to Schweinsteiger

but also it is not ok to say that KRoos is better or even as good as Mueller because of 2 matches !!
User avatar
Element
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 17634
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere on Google Earth
National Flag:
Jordan
Has thanked: 500 times
Been thanked: 888 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: [2011-09-14] Villarreal vs Bayern Munich

Postby Bazi » Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:32 pm

I already posted it in bigsoccer but the work is done so why shouldn't I repost it here:

Manuel Neuer: As expected he was there when we needed him. Especially his footwork was impressive when he blocked that ball between his legs like a hockey player.

Daniel van Buyten: Didn't look that great though he injured himself right before Rossis' chance so I wouldn't weigh that one too high. But German commentator Wolf Fuß just had this to say: "The Belgian once again with a turning circle of a 7,5 tons truck." Nevertheless I hope he'll recover soon because I believe he might be very valuable against Manchester City.

Boateng: Was decent defensively as a right back but didn't support Müller enough offensively. I don't really know if it fits the German "Bierruhe" but he showed imperturbable calm as a CB and I never had a bad feeling when he touched the ball or was forced into a tackle. I like this lad.

Badstuber: In an interview after the match coach Heynckes mentioned between the lines that the management questioned Badstubers qualities and offered the coach to look for a replacement (Alex rumors anyone?) if Heynckes thought it was necessary (he didn't say it literally but that's what I followed). Heynckes believed in his player and today Badstuber paid back the trust with another convincing performance.

Lahm: Very solid game. He was obviously more focused on defense than offense but that was totally fine because Nilmar and Rossi were under control and had not space at all. On top of that he played some fine passes from a deeper position and overlapped Ribéry when there was space.

Tymoshchuk: I was quite surprised when I saw Anatolyi Tymoshchuk in the starting lineup and I didn't like the amount of fouls he committed (though admittedly the referee was kind of odd in his decision making) but he was decent. Nevertheless I still prefer Gustavo over him day and night.

Schweinsteiger: He looked really sleepy and unfocused in the first twenty minutes of the game and therefore he stupidly lost possession twice. After that he played quite good but I got really pissed when he demanded that second yellow card for Marchena and was deservedly booked instead. I also thought that Marchena should have been send off but demanding bookings is bad style I don't want to see such behavior from our vice captain.

Ribéry: I mentioned it over and over again. He is in great shape and an invaluable asset to our game. Just brilliant how he delivered that layback for Toni Kroos in the eighth minute. I simply wished he would try to shoot more often when he has the chance to do so.
Besides his praise for Ribérys performance against Villareal coach Heynckes interestingly stated afterwards that Ribéry could play a Messi-like false nine if Mario Gomez' injury should force him to pause for some time. I'd definitely like to see that some time!

Kroos: Very good game of Toni Kroos! He underlined his rising tendency with some great combinations, passes and this perfectly executed goal in the eighth minute. But he definitely should have made it 2:0 in the second half when he only hit the post after Petersens pass from the right side of the 16m box.

Müller: He most certainly would like to score more goals on the right flank but it's all about the success of the team so he plays his part. He held his position to use the entirety of the pitch, showed effort and had some good scenes in the second half but it certainly wasn't a very good game of Thomas Müller.

Gomez: I don't know if he had problems with his hamstring for the entire first half but he played awful. Crappy movement, permanently offside and less effort than we usually see of our top striker.

substitutes:

Rafinha: When he came in for Daniel van Buyten one could literally see how much our game changed. Suddenly there was this feisty, little Brazilian right back who ran up and down the sideline. He has a great attitude, always driven and motivated and today he rewarded himself with a brilliant goal which sealed our victory


Petersen: He had three really good chances and couldn't score but nevertheless he played very well and showed that he is a gifted player. Someone we can count on in the future. Hopefully we'll see him more often.
Image
User avatar
Bazi
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1043
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:41 am
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 60 times
Been thanked: 323 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2011-09-14] Villarreal vs Bayern Munich

Postby quaazi » Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:54 pm

dambun wrote:How on earth is Kroos a burden???.... He is improving match by match and he helped us defeat Villareal.... He even was UEFA's man of the match last night....

And Everyone knows Mueller is at ease at RAM as much as he is at CAM.... He plays brilliantly at both positions....
You are not the only one who loves Mueller bro, almost every single forum member does so.... But when he performs below par, we should not call Kroos or any other player responsible.... Like I said a few game earlier (FCK game I guess) and you opposed me back then, Thomas is mentally frustrated and desperately needs to score a goal.... It's getting in his mind, and if you review last match's scenes, you'd see that he was less selfless than ever... that's because he badly wanted to score, and probably that's why he underperformed....

And where has Müller been underperforming? On the right wing. Because he can't cut inside like Robbery, seeing as he is right-footed. And our tactics don't enable him to work the channels like he does in the NT (not being able to swap positions with Gomez also doesn't help, Klose offers a lot more in constructing moves for Germany), even more so when the extremely static Kroos is in the middle, not creating room for Müller to play in (which is odd, since Kroos actually travels a lot of distance, but his movement is nowhere near as intelligent as Müller's or Özil's or Götze's). So Kroos is very much a burden because to accompany him in the regular formation, we have to sacrifice Müller. Yesterday was a bit of a one-off, though, seeing as how Gomez also couldn't play due to his injury and Müller's through balls always seemed to end up with Gomez being offside.

But am I honestly going to have to start defending the viewpoint that Müller is a better player in CAM than Kroos? Really?
The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
User avatar
quaazi
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 10079
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:13 pm
National Flag:
Estonia
Has thanked: 129 times
Been thanked: 2011 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2011-09-14] Villarreal vs Bayern Munich

Postby tflags » Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:57 pm

The arguments start to get heated after the question of who gets that CAM spot. It is also hard to argue against a player who scores very early on a very important CL game and in such a faultless way. But IMO Kroos is not a better CAM than Mueller. Mueller's assists are sick, and he gets penalties for us by the truckload and Gomez gets so much better with the guy behind him.

Problem is he is so good he gets moved to the wing where are this point in time I would leave anyone from Alaba to Rafinha (who is turning out to be the best investment of the season.) With all due respect to Kroos' achievement last night, so far this season Mueller at CAM is far more dangerous and has provided far more assists and goal chances, not to mention really sick misses.
Last edited by tflags on Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kimmich
Kimmich - Thiago - Kimmich
Kimmich -- Kimmich
Kimmich -- Hummels -- Boa --Kimmich
Kimmich with Gloves
User avatar
tflags
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 8946
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:41 pm
Location: Around the world... in 80 days.
National Flag:
Ecuador
Has thanked: 811 times
Been thanked: 2841 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: [2011-09-14] Villarreal vs Bayern Munich

Postby Bazi » Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:03 pm

Well but right now the discussion who of those two is the better fit for the ACM slot isn't important at all. Robben will probably be out for another four weeks or more and the discussion should be if there is a better offensive lineup than Ribéry-Kroos-Müller without the Dutchman and I honestly can't see a better one.

There is a nice saying: Don't cross your bridges before you come to them.
Image
User avatar
Bazi
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1043
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:41 am
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 60 times
Been thanked: 323 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2011-09-14] Villarreal vs Bayern Munich

Postby quaazi » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:18 pm

Well, I guess we could at least go for consistency. What's done is done, might as well keep the lineup same and hope that it'll click.
The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
User avatar
quaazi
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 10079
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:13 pm
National Flag:
Estonia
Has thanked: 129 times
Been thanked: 2011 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2011-09-14] Villarreal vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:20 pm

MUTU wrote:Agreed. The problem is that in this forum there is an incredible amount of love towards Müller, and a below-par performance from his end has to be the fault of another player


I think that Muller's below-average game was due to two reasons.

1) He was playing on the wing. It's not that he is a bad winger, because he's played some great games there, but with Bayern he is usually much more efficient as a CAM.
2) Gomez. He was offside countless times and only played the first half. Muller is a great player but perhaps one of his biggest assets is the great partnership he forms with Gomez. It makes both of them stand out. If Gomez keeps getting caught offside, Muller's passes will be useless because usually it is Gomez who finishes them.

Kroos had a great game yesterday, and because of reason #2, probably Muller wouldn't have played much better (at least as far as helping the team is concerned) than he did. So having Kroos play was good for us yesterday. So far I still wish we had a real winger so that we could keep Muller as a CAM when Robben gets injured though. Kroos is improving but still inconsistent even during the game itself. He doesn't play well the whole game. As someone else mentioned, he reminds me a lot of Schweini a few years ago.
Super Bayern! Super Bayern! Hey! Hey!
User avatar
FCBayernMunchen
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 31057
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 8746 times
Been thanked: 7335 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: [2011-09-14] Villarreal vs Bayern Munich

Postby appudds » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:27 pm

Guys..
Kroos just started in the lineup like what, some 3-4 times consecutively and you cant expect him to do a "Robben" immediately after he starts.. We all know he is talented and it will only be a matter of fact before he gets back to his best.. If we had given up on Schweini at Kroos's age, we wouldn't have seen one of the best CMs in the world. I am sure he is improving and before we know it, everyone will be praising him
ANd about Mueller underperforming, you cant blame that on Kroos. You could see the tiredness in Mueller's play. I think he deserves a break. And kroos in the second half was doing pretty much what Mueller would have done as SS in his combination with petersen..
User avatar
appudds
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 7893
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:38 am
Location: Chennai, India
National Flag:
India
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 90 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2011-09-14] Villarreal vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:33 pm

appudds wrote:Guys..
Kroos just started in the lineup like what, some 3-4 times consecutively and you cant expect him to do a "Robben" immediately after he starts.. We all know he is talented and it will only be a matter of fact before he gets back to his best.. If we had given up on Schweini at Kroos's age, we wouldn't have seen one of the best CMs in the world. I am sure he is improving and before we know it, everyone will be praising him
ANd about Mueller underperforming, you cant blame that on Kroos. You could see the tiredness in Mueller's play. I think he deserves a break. And kroos in the second half was doing pretty much what Mueller would have done as SS in his combination with petersen..


appudds, you raise good points but a team which is hoping to achieve big things in the near future, shouldn't be forced to change a player's position (who is, and I think we all agree on this one, one of our most valuable players) to another just because someone else got injured. Kroos has improved, a lot, but Alaba is also talented and he's been given much less time than Kroos. Last week Alaba only played for a little over 15 minutes and he almost scored a great goal from the edge of the penalty area. True, Alaba hardly did anything at all against Kaiserslautern, but Kroos had his share of bad games too at the beginning of the season, Heynckes just kept giving him chance after chance.

Alaba is not a real winger either, but at least he can play it while Muller stays on the CAM. It is worth another try. You can't simply say it doesn't work because it failed once. Maybe Kroos will turn out to be a better choice, but I think it is worth a try.
Super Bayern! Super Bayern! Hey! Hey!
User avatar
FCBayernMunchen
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 31057
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 8746 times
Been thanked: 7335 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: [2011-09-14] Villarreal vs Bayern Munich

Postby YlonenXabi » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:49 pm

Kroos is much better and much more talented than Alaba.
I TRUST IN ARJEN ROBBEN
User avatar
YlonenXabi
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 8677
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:53 am
Location: Sydney
National Flag:
Spain
Has thanked: 1710 times
Been thanked: 1750 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: [2011-09-14] Villarreal vs Bayern Munich

Postby dambun » Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:52 pm

Element wrote:but also it is not ok to say that KRoos is better or even as good as Mueller because of 2 matches !!

quaazi wrote:But am I honestly going to have to start defending the viewpoint that Müller is a better player in CAM than Kroos? Really?


I didn't see a single soul saying that Kroos is better than Mueller, or even a better CAM compared to Mueller.... That's not the point!

You're getting it wrong! Problem is, if we use Mueller as CAM, we don't have a suitable RAM... Neither Kroos nor Alaba have never played RAM in a satisfactory fashion... So... It's a totally understandable decision to use Mueller as RAM, where he is equally at home, and use Kroos as CAM....

But I believe Kroos had a better game last night... that's all....
"" "" "" ""
Time for overhaul!
User avatar
dambun
2010/11 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 5281
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:05 am
Location: Tehran, Iran
National Flag:
Iran
Has thanked: 862 times
Been thanked: 377 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2011-09-14] Villarreal vs Bayern Munich

Postby The Spyware » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:32 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:Kroos is much better and much more talented than Alaba.


Unfair comparison

As CAM Kroos is much beetter and his talent help him much more than Alaba

As a defensive midfield Alaba's football qualities is GREAT and very talented for it But unfortunately he is being wasted in attacking positions
Image
User avatar
The Spyware
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 2686
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:14 am
Location: Egypt
National Flag:
Egypt
Has thanked: 218 times
Been thanked: 169 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2011-09-14] Villarreal vs Bayern Munich

Postby HerrRommel » Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:11 pm

Extended Highlights?

Regarding the Kroos matter, I would rather have him than alaba.Right now , the system is decent and effective, it cant be changed just so that it suits muller, because alaba on the wing is a huge compromise.If muller plays more on the wing, he will , in the end be more versatile, because he plays the game with his head. And its moments like these which matter to a player, If Schweinsteiger didnt leave , its because he was supported and encouraged when he was incosistent, he probably will never leave even if barca turns up with a huge paycheck.In today's commercial football world with no moral values shown either by players or the club , the reactions to moments like these are important.
HerrRommel
Woah, this feels cool!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:40 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 3 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2011-09-14] Villarreal vs Bayern Munich

Postby AvatarX » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:50 pm

"You can live to be a hundred if you give up all the things that make you want to live to be a hundred."
User avatar
AvatarX
Assistant Admin & World Cup 2014 Prediction Game Winner
Assistant Admin & World Cup 2014 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 7984
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:42 pm
Location: Metaverse
National Flag:
Anonymous
Has thanked: 751 times
Been thanked: 884 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

PreviousNext

Return to UEFA Champions League

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests