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[2015-02-17] Shakhtar Donetsk vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:45 pm

Shakhtar Donetsk will win
1
3%
It will end in a draw
3
10%
Bayern Munich will win
26
87%
 
Total votes : 30

Re: [2015-02-17] Shakhtar Donetsk vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:42 am

Player ratings (1-10; 10=best; players introduced after 70 minutes get no rating)

GK Manuel Neuer, 7 -- A clean sheet on another quiet evening for the Ballon d'Or third-place winner. Only a free kick to save and you have to think he'll have more to do in Munich.

DF Jerome Boateng, 7 -- Suspended domestically but Bayern's rock at the back made Luiz Adriano, the leading scorer in the competition, redundant.

DF Rafinha, 6 -- The only Bayern player to manage a shot on target in the whole game. Rafinha was the first player to go into the book on 23 minutes, so the headstrong player did well to restrain his temper for the rest of the game.

DF David Alaba, 6 -- The 22-year-old Austrian was solid at the back but couldn't provide any attacking impetus with any of his usual rampaging thrusts down the left flank.

MF Juan Bernat, 7 -- Featured in every single game for Bayern this season in all competitions. Quietly effective as ever down the left side in tandem with Alaba and the only negative in his game (if you are a half-empty type) is Bernat's lack of goals.

MF Xabi Alonso, 4 -- The Spaniard reached the century mark of Champions League appearances, but this accolade will be tarnished by his dismissal on 65 minutes after collecting two yellow cards. At least his suspension for the second leg will not leave Pep Guardiola with any quandaries regarding Bastian Schweinsteiger or Alonso in midfield.

MF Bastian Schweinsteiger, 7 -- The skipper had a bright game and also celebrated a century of European appearances (Champions League and UEFA Cup) in a Bayern shirt.

MF Arjen Robben, 7 - Didn't hit the heights of recent weeks but was still the Reds' brightest spark and biggest threat.

MF Franck Ribery, 5 -- The 31-year-old enjoyed a promising opening period but went off the boil after the break as Bayern toiled in vain to make a breakthrough.

FW Mario Gotze, 6 -- Like many of his teammates, Gotze faded after a good start and was sacrificed for Lewandowski with 15 minutes to play.

FW Thomas Muller, 6 -- Bayern's record Champions League scorer (24 goals) toiled tirelessly with scant reward and made way for Badstuber as Guardiola had to reorganise after the red card.

Substitutes
DF Holger Badstuber, 7 -- Came on for the last 20 minutes and didn't put a foot wrong on his first Champions League appearance since November 2012, when he was in the 1-1 draw in Spain against Valencia.

FW Robert Lewandowski, NR -- Replaced former Dortmund teammate Gotze with a little more than 15 minutes to play and did not have much time to make an impact. [source]
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Re: [2015-02-17] Shakhtar Donetsk vs Bayern Munich

Postby SilverX » Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:46 pm

Ottomeister13 wrote:I am sorry for being negative.. NOT.. We had a not so great start to the season, playing wise.. Pointwise we were on track for the complete season. Then we had some nice and good games were the opposition had no chance at all.. And now all of a sudden they unlearned how to play soccer, except Robben.

Its like under Heynckes atm when he took over before the treble season. No creativity, to much experiences etc.

You can say what you want, but i agree that some are way to spoiled after 2012/2013.. But if you call yourself a favourite for the CL title and you perform like this against, no offence, Donezk who are still in their WINTERBREAK btw.. you have no right to be named as a contender. A team with our class, should have created ATLEAST ONE big chance and we didnt.. The Schweini sort of volley could not have gone in, because Schweini was never the precise shooter, except his FK's lately. Muller had just bad luck and same goes for Robben with that FK pass he got, but completely missed. Except those things, i saw nothing really offense wise. And thats a bad sign if you cant even create anything against a team that is still having winterbreak..

What you gonna do against the bigger teams like Chelsea, Real, Barca, Atletico like this, without pace and creativity.. I am sorry to say this, but we are nowhere near contender material like this. And i doubt that the return of Martinez and Lahm will change any of that at all ( i dont name Thiago, because i doubt he will be @ 100% anytime soon after this long abscence )


I completely agree with all these points!!!!

I cannot believe how far up the field Schweinsteiger was playing, leaving the fossil Alonso alone to play DM. I do not like Alonso playing as a DM. He is too slow at his age. If we played Gotze/ Schweinsteiger in midfield with Lewa and muller on the field at the same time, would have been a diff game.

Gotze is just soooooooooo slow! I know he had potential and lots of you here get but hurt when someone says something negative about him. But to me it just looks like he is so slow and doesn't put in a 100%. Only happy to be on the field.

Alonso was just as slow yesterday. Both of his fouls came due to him being beat by a quicker player......

This whole 3 back line needs to go away and start playing he best players in the world in their correct positions... Pep!!!!!!!!!!!


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Re: [2015-02-17] Shakhtar Donetsk vs Bayern Munich

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:32 pm

I know why we failed to score... a colleague of my wife who happens to be a bas****d Chelsea fan last Mon told her ; did your husbund give you eight kisses for valentine> ?? :evil:
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Re: [2015-02-17] Shakhtar Donetsk vs Bayern Munich

Postby RedQueen » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:02 pm

Why does all of this remind me of the Germany-NT world cup discussion after the R16 so much. "We'll never win the WC with Löw", "he's playing everyone out of position", "the defense is a shambles", "France will trash us with that high line", "no way we are going to win the world cup"... we know how it ended.

People need to calm down. It was the first leg of the R16 games. It tells nothing about the upcoming games.
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Re: [2015-02-17] Shakhtar Donetsk vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:20 pm

RedQueen wrote:Why does all of this remind me of the Germany-NT world cup discussion after the R16 so much. "We'll never win the WC with Löw", "he's playing everyone out of position", "the defense is a shambles", "France will trash us with that high line", "no way we are going to win the world cup"... we know how it ended.

People need to calm down. It was the first leg of the R16 games. It tells nothing about the upcoming games.

This. I just want to point out that by the reasoning of some members the treble winning team had no right to be called contenders after losing to BATE.
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Re: [2015-02-17] Shakhtar Donetsk vs Bayern Munich

Postby Firefox1234 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:05 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
RedQueen wrote:Why does all of this remind me of the Germany-NT world cup discussion after the R16 so much. "We'll never win the WC with Löw", "he's playing everyone out of position", "the defense is a shambles", "France will trash us with that high line", "no way we are going to win the world cup"... we know how it ended.

People need to calm down. It was the first leg of the R16 games. It tells nothing about the upcoming games.

This. I just want to point out that by the reasoning of some members the treble winning team had no right to be called contenders after losing to BATE.


Don't forget the loss to Basel a year before, half this place wanted Jupp fired
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Re: [2015-02-17] Shakhtar Donetsk vs Bayern Munich

Postby Ottomeister13 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:22 am

The Basel thing was because they underestimated them in the first leg. Bate none knew and in Eastern Europe the games are Always hard ;) Anyway, Bayern had other standards back then, because of all the succes, the media expectation and that of most fans has grown.

The matter of the fact is, we didnt create any good chance out of the game, except Schweini's 50/50 chance.
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Re: [2015-02-17] Shakhtar Donetsk vs Bayern Munich

Postby shindouhikaru888 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:25 pm

RedQueen wrote:Why does all of this remind me of the Germany-NT world cup discussion after the R16 so much. "We'll never win the WC with Löw", "he's playing everyone out of position", "the defense is a shambles", "France will trash us with that high line", "no way we are going to win the world cup"... we know how it ended.

People need to calm down. It was the first leg of the R16 games. It tells nothing about the upcoming games.

Yes u are right, but this is totally different than the world cup. We have the best team after Spain screwed up. There are quite a few team who are comparable to us. The world cup was ours to lose while the cl will have to be given lots of effort since we're not the best team atm. How RM manages to win CL last year proves that with given luck, we can win.
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Re: [2015-02-17] Shakhtar Donetsk vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:09 pm

shindouhikaru888 wrote:The world cup was ours to lose while the cl will have to be given lots of effort since we're not the best team atm.

Quality-wise, yes we are, just like Germany.
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Re: [2015-02-17] Shakhtar Donetsk vs Bayern Munich

Postby pyrasur » Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:41 am

Many were certain Brazil and France were the powerhouses of the WC when they were trashing Loew as well. Easy to say the WC was Germany's to lose with the benefit of hindsight, but it's wrong and it diminishes the achievement of the players. It took 100% commitment, the cup wasn't there for Germany to walk in and take. First European team to win the World Cup in South America, that shows how much of a challenge it was to go there and win.
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Re: [2015-02-17] Shakhtar Donetsk vs Bayern Munich

Postby runaway » Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:41 am

And everyone was talking about how slow the suicidal highline and any counterattack will kill the NationalElf. It was always the highline, no fullbacks, slow Höwedes, and lazy Özil that were highlighted weaknesses. Then Brazil happened.

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Re: [2015-02-17] Shakhtar Donetsk vs Bayern Munich

Postby tflags » Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:23 am

Ottomeister13 wrote:The Basel thing was because they underestimated them in the first leg.


I don't think anyone in Germany underestimated Basel that season. None whatsoever.
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Re: [2015-02-17] Shakhtar Donetsk vs Bayern Munich

Postby Ottomeister13 » Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:27 am

I think they did, because Basel was way grittier that match, they ran for their life and stuff, where i thought the Bayern players werent really into that match. And then the 1-0 came and all of them had something like'' oeps''
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Re: [2015-02-17] Shakhtar Donetsk vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCB general » Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:50 am

tflags wrote:
Ottomeister13 wrote:The Basel thing was because they underestimated them in the first leg.


I don't think anyone in Germany underestimated Basel that season. None whatsoever.

No, they didn't. Many people don't recall 6 games against 2 Borussia teams. We didn't win a single one, penalties after 2x15 min extra time don't count. Through the whole season we played particularly the same as we did season before under van Gaal - possession, slow predictable passes, no plan B, players didn't move that fast. Autumn 2011 was not that bad in some games, in 2012 we started terribly and Dortmund had had their best rückrunde in the entire history(record BuLi season, many FCB records down).

That Basel game reminded in that time only reminded us that Jupp didn't have balls to risk, switch tactics, etc. Pragmatic approach, always the same thing and no respond on disciplined and organized teams, even his tongue in his mouth would act the same in these situations which wasn't enough. Many guys on Croatian forum were frustrated about this all, some of them accused him few times that he doesn't have balls, change something, risk and put 2 strikers at the same time, etc.

Then after that season and during 2012-2013 he just said that football has changed and that he needs to work far more if he wants to get something out there. I mean, wow! People wanted to see Jupp fired, I didn't know what to think because he wasn't that horrible as Dortmund played record season, but an obvious room for improvement was there and he did it in the next season where we have done everything great besides Arsenal.
I didn't even care about CL that year after debacle at home, but yes... A bit fun with Valencia and BATE in two games, still nothing comparing to Lille and later. The first Leverkusen clash was fantastic match where we lost totally undeserved. But through the whole 2012-2013 we played fantastic football, these standards were only reached in 4-5 good games under Guardiola in this season and half of his reign(2x City, Roma, Gladbach).

Last autumn there were also great matches in the Bundesliga, but these teams aren't serious enough even though I can't deny success and very impressive display follwed by fantastic results.

Then what the hell am I trying to say? Well, how and why can't we continue with this? After all, I'm really bored to myself repating it, we have the best coach in the world and fantastic team, haven't we? Then what's the problem to play 5 games in row on the highest level, present the best display despite all teams are defensively oriented aganst us? Now, that's the question on which nobody doesn't have the answer. "Well, how do you know that?" I know because I'm being seeing this when I watch almost every single game, because our coach doesn't know or at least it doesn't work. It's getting even worse if all players will be fit, on disposal and still nothing.
Only 8 days left to fix something, then March is starting and if Bayern don't change something in their game, they're in serious trouble. There's no more time to fix things and especially to experiment after one and half season. :|
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Re: [2015-02-17] Shakhtar Donetsk vs Bayern Munich

Postby Ottomeister13 » Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:55 am

The main problem is the CONTSTANTLY rotating squads. Injuries, Guardiola himself, some twitter stuff, red card here and there etc. The team is almost no matchday the same. Especially in defense this sucks. And offense wise, you have one nice game, but the next you have all sorts of other players around you, who also play well or perform poor the other day.

I dont get it why it is so hard to create anything atm, because we all know how well they can play, but i just dont get it why it doesnt come out so often. Even against those complete defense teams we had some nice games/created chances. But lately its nothing ;s
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