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[09-03-10] Fiorentina vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

Who will win?

Poll ended at Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:13 pm

Bayern
14
54%
Draw
9
35%
Fiorentina (Fiorentina go through)
0
No votes
Fiorentina (Bayern go through)
3
12%
 
Total votes : 26

Re: [09-03-10] Fiorentina vs Bayern Munich

Postby armbrust » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:01 pm

The only great thing LVG have done for the club, is the fact that maybe robben is here because LVG, also it seems that hes good doing half time speechs.

But LVG simply destroyed our bench making decent subs go, and now we will regret it.

With players like Ribery, Robben, Sweni, Lahm, Klose this is for me the best FCB in the history. For sure Robben and Ribery are 2 of the 5 best players in the world. In CL we pass the first round by miracle, and we suffered the beat fiore, a club 10 times smaller than us. The BL should be just a warm up for a club of the size of FCB.

Yes LVG is a improvement over klissman, but still not good enough for us, and what im allways worry is that LVG is the kind of person able to do weird things just to make noise and feed his ego. He just proved it again with alaba, the kid did well but he got eaten in the second half. Tymo would have handle much better just standing there and holding marchioni & company rigth side attacks, tymo allready proved hes along sweni the best defender in this team and LVG dont use him, just to feed his ego?
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Re: [09-03-10] Fiorentina vs Bayern Munich

Postby sch0ll7 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:11 pm

shileno wrote:You think we all hate Bayern, LVG, Gomez and everyone. Just realize that we all want the same, we want a great team, capable to achieve many titles. Personally, I want a solid team like Barca or Chelsea. I thought we had reached that but I was wrong, now I see it clearly. I don't search for a black sheep, I just search for our low points and for what we can improve.

But you can't deny that almost 75% of our games we have won them by luck (MVB shoot against Dortmund, Robben free kick with Bremen, Ribery in Hamburg). I remember only one great game against Juventus and some great games against weak teams like Hertha, Bochum or Hannover.

If for you, read something like "Gomez is world class", "LVG is the best coach ever" or "We're a team!" is good posts, then you shouldn't be here. If you only like Bayern when they play great, good for you.


No I dont think you hate Bayern...I know we all want the same...I know we did not reach level of Barcelona or Chelsea...It takes time to reach that.
Difference between me and you is that I am willing to give time to this coach and this team and our new manager Nerlinger...but you all think it is easy to make great team and great results...dont give any player a chance and just buy new one...he will do better [will he?].

Even I am searching for low points...but searching for weak points in our team is not bashing...but thinking about what would be best what could we change and what can some player offer to our common goal.

You all seem to be bashing same guys...but I dont see you bashing [not as much] Butt and our defense...they are the main problem and not our attack.
I never said Gomez is world-class lol...
I just said give him a chance he is not doing that bad as you all think...even Ibrahimovic did not score for barca for 12 straight games but he is world-class and proven player.
LVG is world-class coach...noone can deny that...and I believe he is pushing this team to something great...if you dont think that good for you.

You really want to sack LVG and than we can have another coach who will do everything from the start again and will be sacked and everything will just go round and round..and before you know it we will be mediocre team with no trophies for 10 years.
You need to trust clubs philosophy and that we can make something out of it....if we dont and LVG shows he is not the right man...than and only than i will say LVG rauss...but when we are first in BL, in semis of German CUP and in QF of CL...i can only congratulate him. or should I bash him?

Every game we played this season...we were better team on the pitch and dominated our opponents [maybe not first game against Bordeaux]...you cant deny that!
Against Bochum and other low teams we were superior and made our chances even tough they parked a bus infront of their goal...but we were unlucky to receive some stupid with their only shot on the goal. And that happened often with our back four and our GK.
Every game we made more than 10-15 shots at the opponents goal and had like 3-4 100% chances...We make our chances and we dominate...
The main reason we lost or have drawn was our defense.
How many times did it happen this season that we conceded some silly goal? how many times in CL happened that BUtt had its own show [bordeaux 2x, Fiorentina, etc..] and how many times Demichelis or DVB made mistakes that led to a goal?

This team is going into the right direction but just needs some changes in defense and GK position. and than we can be Chelsea and Barcelona.
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Re: [09-03-10] Fiorentina vs Bayern Munich

Postby sch0ll7 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:24 pm

armbrust wrote:The only great thing LVG have done for the club, is the fact that maybe robben is here because LVG, also it seems that hes good doing half time speechs.

But LVG simply destroyed our bench making decent subs go, and now we will regret it.

With players like Ribery, Robben, Sweni, Lahm, Klose this is for me the best FCB in the history. For sure Robben and Ribery are 2 of the 5 best players in the world. In CL we pass the first round by miracle, and we suffered the beat fiore, a club 10 times smaller than us. The BL should be just a warm up for a club of the size of FCB.

Yes LVG is a improvement over klissman, but still not good enough for us, and what im allways worry is that LVG is the kind of person able to do weird things just to make noise and feed his ego. He just proved it again with alaba, the kid did well but he got eaten in the second half. Tymo would have handle much better just standing there and holding marchioni & company rigth side attacks, tymo allready proved hes along sweni the best defender in this team and LVG dont use him, just to feed his ego?


Only good thing he done for this club:)

you must understand that when he came or Klinsi came to this club...they had good players but no team...no backbone no head no tail...nothing.
It is hard to make good things in such a short time...it is hard to fix something that was being broken like a glass into 1000 pieces...and it was braking for last 5-6 years.
When he cleared the bench of players that we dont need is best thing that happened to us in a long time...you need to rebuild the squad and he had the balls to do it..which Klinsi certainly did not have.
We need to make a solid team again and when you have players that dont fit in it we need to get rid of them...and that is what he is doing.
It is only a matter of time before likes of Lell and Gorlitz leave...we dont need them...easy as that...we need new players that fit into our team and which will make our team more balanced and competitive.

You think BL is such an easy league dont you...
well it is not like that...it is getting stronger and stronger year by year and everyone can see that.
I wont deny that even I thought that he should play Altintop, Pranjic or even Tymo in that LB position...but he clearly knows why Alaba played there.
Or even Contento played and not Altintop, pranjic or Tymo.
Alaba was our best defender yesterday and you can see that in every "sports rating" on the web. even Lahm had more trouble closing space on the right. and found himself out of position couple of times.
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Re: [09-03-10] Fiorentina vs Bayern Munich

Postby KAHN » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:40 pm

I agree completely whit sch0ll7. I also question some decisions made by LVG. But I have complete trust in his abilitys.
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Re: [09-03-10] Fiorentina vs Bayern Munich

Postby shileno » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:51 pm

I agree with that our defense it's a problem. But for me, it's not our main problem, for me it's our midfield, our captain. He with Schweini are the heart of our team right now, and they need to play good so we can all play good. The problem is that Schweini is doing all the job when MVB is just walking.

I'm not bashing. I could have been bashing LVG for the Audi Cup and bashing Gomez for some pre-season games, but that's stupid. I may be a bit impatient but c'mon, we almost have an entire season, and if you look to our football, we're just like the beginning of the season. Ok, maybe a bit better, but it's the same. I would give another season to Gomez, but he needs to at least, control the ball.

I don't want to sack LVG right now because it would be a huge mistake. Besides, it will be hard to get a better coach. I just hate how this "world class coach" could make retarded decisions and prefer some players instead of others. I wish he could be like Pellegrini in that way, when he sees someone is doing bad, he just subs him, he doesn't care if is Raul or Guti or anyone. Same thing with Benzema, yeah he's great and everything, but he was doing bad and now he's on the bench, and Higuain is doing terrific. Yesterday Gomez was on the bench and Klose did a lot better than him. I hate that stupid favoritism of LVG with some players.. Along with bad choices, that's why I think he's bad for us.

I don't care if we're first right now, I want to see Bayern owning Schalke and Leverkusen, if that happens, we will be better than last season. So far, the only strong team we owned was Wolfsburg but it was only because they were in bad form. Bremen, Dortmund (second match) and Hamburg were lucky matches.
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Re: [09-03-10] Fiorentina vs Bayern Munich

Postby dambun » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:00 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:
shileno wrote:You think we all hate Bayern, LVG, Gomez and everyone. Just realize that we all want the same, we want a great team, capable to achieve many titles. Personally, I want a solid team like Barca or Chelsea. I thought we had reached that but I was wrong, now I see it clearly. I don't search for a black sheep, I just search for our low points and for what we can improve.

But you can't deny that almost 75% of our games we have won them by luck (MVB shoot against Dortmund, Robben free kick with Bremen, Ribery in Hamburg). I remember only one great game against Juventus and some great games against weak teams like Hertha, Bochum or Hannover.

If for you, read something like "Gomez is world class", "LVG is the best coach ever" or "We're a team!" is good posts, then you shouldn't be here. If you only like Bayern when they play great, good for you.


No I dont think you hate Bayern...I know we all want the same...I know we did not reach level of Barcelona or Chelsea...It takes time to reach that.
Difference between me and you is that I am willing to give time to this coach and this team and our new manager Nerlinger...but you all think it is easy to make great team and great results...dont give any player a chance and just buy new one...he will do better [will he?].

Even I am searching for low points...but searching for weak points in our team is not bashing...but thinking about what would be best what could we change and what can some player offer to our common goal.

You all seem to be bashing same guys...but I dont see you bashing [not as much] Butt and our defense...they are the main problem and not our attack.
I never said Gomez is world-class lol...
I just said give him a chance he is not doing that bad as you all think...even Ibrahimovic did not score for barca for 12 straight games but he is world-class and proven player.
LVG is world-class coach...noone can deny that...and I believe he is pushing this team to something great...if you dont think that good for you.

You really want to sack LVG and than we can have another coach who will do everything from the start again and will be sacked and everything will just go round and round..and before you know it we will be mediocre team with no trophies for 10 years.
You need to trust clubs philosophy and that we can make something out of it....if we dont and LVG shows he is not the right man...than and only than i will say LVG rauss...but when we are first in BL, in semis of German CUP and in QF of CL...i can only congratulate him. or should I bash him?

Every game we played this season...we were better team on the pitch and dominated our opponents [maybe not first game against Bordeaux]...you cant deny that!
Against Bochum and other low teams we were superior and made our chances even tough they parked a bus infront of their goal...but we were unlucky to receive some stupid with their only shot on the goal. And that happened often with our back four and our GK.
Every game we made more than 10-15 shots at the opponents goal and had like 3-4 100% chances...We make our chances and we dominate...
The main reason we lost or have drawn was our defense.
How many times did it happen this season that we conceded some silly goal? how many times in CL happened that BUtt had its own show [bordeaux 2x, Fiorentina, etc..] and how many times Demichelis or DVB made mistakes that led to a goal?

This team is going into the right direction but just needs some changes in defense and GK position. and than we can be Chelsea and Barcelona.


This guy's words comes directly out of my mind... exactly....
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Re: [09-03-10] Fiorentina vs Bayern Munich

Postby sch0ll7 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:09 pm

I agree that MVB is not as good as some Ballack or Effe was...but he is doing his job solid...he is not world-class but is solid and LVG is playing him because he brings something to our game...I dont believe we would be better with Tymo instead of MVB...not because defensive attributes but because MVB brings more to the team in overall.
So you think our midfield should be guilty for our goals?
Every midfield leaks and it is up to defense to kill those mistake made by midfield and our defense is not doing that...they are making their own silly mistakes.
80% of conceded goals are defensive mistakes...everyone sees that.
LVG plays his best players if you ask me...he is stubborn but so are all good coaches as Maurinho, Sir Ferguson etc...Ferguson kicked Beckham out because he did not change his football shoes as he told him to.
What do u think Klose did better than Gomez..did he make any great plays? did he score a goal?...I wont say he played bad but he did nothing great so I could say he was world-class and that he should be in first XI...now he will have a chance to prove he is for first team and I will be glad if he plays great. I am not fan of any player in our squad because I want for our team to play good and not some specific player.

KAHN tnx [fala ti :) ] for backing me on this one:D
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Re: [09-03-10] Fiorentina vs Bayern Munich

Postby dambun » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:17 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:You think BL is such an easy league dont you...well it is not like that...it is getting stronger and stronger year by year and everyone can see that.


Exactly... Actually, The fact that BL has the best mid-table teams around (Check out Europa league if you don't believe me), means that BL is a pretty hard league to win.
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Re: [09-03-10] Fiorentina vs Bayern Munich

Postby shileno » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:36 pm

I never said our midfield was guilty of the goals, I said that they're guilty for our average football. I'm talking about our football, not about the other teams football.

Well, I respect your opinion, but I think MVB is doing horrible and that we aren't using our best players.

--------Tymo
-Schweini---Alaba
Robben-Klose-Ribery

^ Those are our best players right now. Did you see yesterday how Alaba went forward, gave some passes with Ribery and they made our first goal? Did you see how Klose fought more than Gomez? (He was a much greater threat for Fiore) Did you see how Schweini ran like crazy without any defensive help in the midfield?
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Re: [09-03-10] Fiorentina vs Bayern Munich

Postby sch0ll7 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:28 pm

Tymo, Alaba, Klose and even Ribery...

Tymo...how can you say he is our best player for that position at the moment?...did he even play this year so you can say he is our best player for that position?

Alaba...I wont take that kids debut game...he played great if you ask me...but you just cant put that kid in that position and say he will play great there just because you think so...that position is most important position in our squad and you would put it in 17 year olds "legs"...just because you think so.
I think the kid has a bright future ahead of him but to say he is ready to play that role in our current squad is just too much...if you take in account that he did not even play in that role this season [except against Basel - friendly match].

Klose....to say he is our best striker...that is just nonsense...I would put Olic or Muller ahead of him...he scored 1 or 2 goals this season and you think Gomez, Olic and Muller which scored more than 30 goals together this season are behind him in the picking order.
How do u rate him to be better fit? where did you get an idea that he will score more goals or even play better when he had same chance than every other attacker to prove his worth? If you bash Gomez and say ok he is LVG favorite and he is playing him because board spent 30 mil €...than why kid Muller and Olic have more playing time than him?...they must do better in training or have better understanding with other players on the pitch...something must be there.

Ribery...I will never say he is not good...when he is out of form he is better than 90% of other players in the world...but he needs to get to his real shape.
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Re: [09-03-10] Fiorentina vs Bayern Munich

Postby shileno » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:50 pm

Because I know Tymo since Zenit. He's not good in any other position that doesn't is a CDM. And he played a couple of games in that position with us (I remember a Wolfsburg match) and he was then man of the match if I record. Perfect to help our defense, so the fullbacks stay where they should be, defending.

Alaba's debut? He has been playing for a while. He's very good for his age and without Kroos he's our best CAM. I prefer him over Pranjic.

Klose is our best striker playing alone. Gomez and Muller barely can control the ball, and we know that Olic is a second striker. Klose is our perfect 9 right now. No one else can play alone.

Ribery, along with Robben, are world class. Both are wingers and wingers must play more offensive, they're not midfielders, they're wingers and their mission is to generate goal chances for our striker.
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Re: [09-03-10] Fiorentina vs Bayern Munich

Postby sch0ll7 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:03 pm

shileno wrote:Because I know Tymo since Zenit. He's not good in any other position that doesn't is a CDM. And he played a couple of games in that position with us (I remember a Wolfsburg match) and he was then man of the match if I record. Perfect to help our defense, so the fullbacks stay where they should be, defending.

Alaba's debut? He has been playing for a while. He's very good for his age and without Kroos he's our best CAM. I prefer him over Pranjic.

Klose is our best striker playing alone. Gomez and Muller barely can control the ball, and we know that Olic is a second striker. Klose is our perfect 9 right now. No one else can play alone.

Ribery, along with Robben, are world class. Both are wingers and wingers must play more offensive, they're not midfielders, they're wingers and their mission is to generate goal chances for our striker.



I remember MVB playing for PSV where he was one of the best players..but that does not mean he is the same man today..he plays different game.
I remember Demichelis being voted fans player of the year few years ago but does not mean he is the same man today.
Tymo just does not fit into our style of play...if we played same football as we did in late 90s, and beginning of this decade when we had Jeremies in that position he would be good...but now we play totally different football under LVG and Tymo is not adjusting to it.

This was Alaba`s second competitive match if I remember...and his debut in CL...so you cant be saying he is playing for a while when he is playing for 1 week.
The kid is great but I think MVB brings more stability and leadership and many other things to this team...I will mention Altintop so you wont say i have a hard on for MVB...Altintop is quite good at MC position.
Like I said that position is too important.
And Alaba is not AMC...he is MC...but like LVG said “He’s a left-back, even if he doesn’t think so himself,”

Klose never played lone striker for a club in his whole career and you say something like that. He is known to be a good passer but not poacher.

Ribery is great and I would keep him in first XI even if he is out of shape...he makes the difference but I just wanted to say that he is not to his best at the moment.
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Re: [09-03-10] Fiorentina vs Bayern Munich

Postby shileno » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:29 pm

What you say about Tymo has no sense. I'm talking about playing WITH US (about 3 or 4 months ago), you're talking about AGES ago. There's absolutely no excuse. Tymo still is the world class CDM from Zenit. I hate when they understimate russian, ucranian and serbian players, they would kick many italian, english and german asses.

Ok Alaba is a CM, but what's the difference? Yesterday he played as a CAM giving many good passes. His defense was pretty bad.

Klose has been playing as lone striker with the NT for since.. Always lol, and guess who can be the next top scorer of the WCs..

Still, that won't change anything. We will keep being a non-competitive CL team.
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Re: [09-03-10] Fiorentina vs Bayern Munich

Postby AvatarX » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:39 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:Tymo just does not fit into our style of play...if we played same football as we did in late 90s, and beginning of this decade when we had Jeremies in that position he would be good...but now we play totally different football under LVG and Tymo is not adjusting to it.


Well, in that totally different football we are playing it seems that our defense is sh!t and we can use a killer CDM who can help our defense look better.
I would compare Jeremies with MVB mostly cause Jeremies was also too harsh with his opponents. I think Tymo is a step above as he plays with better defensive position in order to stop an attack and not with a bad tackle (=foul).

Anyway, these is just our opinions. We all know that even if we had Essien or Yaya Toure or any other top CDM they would also be on the bench cause LVG chose MVB for our captain - so there is a reason for stick him in the starting XI, when it is clearly that Schweini should be our captain.

BTW, seeing the highlights of the game:

How the hell DVB, a 2m tall and 95kg weight giant felt like this in the third goal???? :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Re: [09-03-10] Fiorentina vs Bayern Munich

Postby tappinho » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:55 pm

avatarx wrote:BTW, seeing the highlights of the game:

How the hell DVB, a 2m tall and 95kg weight giant felt like this in the third goal???? :evil: :evil: :evil:


and how the heel didn't he succeed in touching the ball before Vargas in the first goal????

I think he need one of his goals to improve his game... We need him back!!

Anyway, I can agree with LvG about Alaba: he has the pace and the skills to develop in a great LB. Obviously he'll have to work hard to improve defensively, but it's easier for a youngster... I was thinking about Tottenham's Gareth Bale (quite similar to 'Alaba's project' in my opinion): last year he sucked defensively, now he's great...
Still missing my dear Deisler...
_____

Neuer mind the Ballacks
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tappinho
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