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[2018-04-11] Bayern Munich vs Sevilla

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What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:45 pm

Bayern Munich will win
5
100%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Sevilla FC will win
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 5

Re: [2018-04-11] Bayern Munich vs Sevilla

Postby MUTU » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:26 pm

aterford wrote:
MUTU wrote:
#12 wrote:MUTU, watch closely: THIS is a shit ref!!

You need to get yourself checked out. I'm serious :)

This is a shit referee, you're right. But when you repeatedly refuse to blame Kassai last season and then blame Collum in this match, something's just not right. Kassai was at very least 7-8 times worse than Collum. One should not even contemplate discussing or comparing them again.


Like #12, I'm still of the opinion that we probably go out vs Real Madrid last year, even without Kassai.


But Kassai was utter dogshite, Collum doesn't hold a candle to how diabolical he was last season.

Maybe yes, maybe not. We can't assume to know what happens. But to say Kassai f**ked us would be an understatement.
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Re: [2018-04-11] Bayern Munich vs Sevilla

Postby aterford » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:39 pm

RAJBAYERN wrote:
aterford wrote:
Like #12, I'm still of the opinion that we probably go out vs Real Madrid last year, even without Kassai.




No one can prove that, get back your mind before the injustice second yellow card Vidal received... Bayern was winning the game 2-1, tied the series and the second goal gave us an extra and also a pressure to Real Madrid, that we were attacking and more close to score the third goal instead of Real their second.

I can't prove that without that second yellow card for Vidal, we could advance, but playing with 10 kill our momentum and consequently affect our performance for the next 40 minutes.



That's the thing.
The call that Vidal got sent off on was crap, but if we're being honest with ourselves, Vidal had committed a dozen other fouls that could have EASILY been a second yellow card, BEFORE his sending off. Kassai made a lot of terrible calls, and the foul on Asensio was one of them, but I think just about any referee would've seen Vidal off one way or another.
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Re: [2018-04-11] Bayern Munich vs Sevilla

Postby RAJBAYERN » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:46 pm

aterford wrote:
RAJBAYERN wrote:
aterford wrote:
Like #12, I'm still of the opinion that we probably go out vs Real Madrid last year, even without Kassai.




No one can prove that, get back your mind before the injustice second yellow card Vidal received... Bayern was winning the game 2-1, tied the series and the second goal gave us an extra and also a pressure to Real Madrid, that we were attacking and more close to score the third goal instead of Real their second.

I can't prove that without that second yellow card for Vidal, we could advance, but playing with 10 kill our momentum and consequently affect our performance for the next 40 minutes.



That's the thing.
The call that Vidal got sent off on was crap, but if we're being honest with ourselves, Vidal had committed a dozen other fouls that could have EASILY been a second yellow card, BEFORE his sending off. Kassai made a lot of terrible calls, and the foul on Asensio was one of them, but I think just about any referee would've seen Vidal off one way or another.


As also Casemiro.
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Re: [2018-04-11] Bayern Munich vs Sevilla

Postby #12 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:38 pm

MUTU wrote:
#12 wrote:MUTU, watch closely: THIS is a shit ref!!

You need to get yourself checked out. I'm serious :)

This is a shit referee, you're right. But when you repeatedly refuse to blame Kassai last season and then blame Collum in this match, something's just not right. Kassai was at very least 7-8 times worse than Collum. One should not even contemplate discussing or comparing them again.


Kassai was bad for both teams - Collum
definitely gave them an advantage...
And not that it matters, but: we were even more shit back then... We didn’t deserve to win at all... That would’ve been a Chelsea-like result... He did not ruin the course of that game, that was downhill from the moment we wasted that penalty in Munich...

I know what the result of the check will be (I assume you meant an eye doctor...): he will find a lack of red and white glasses through which YOU saw RM-FCB
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Re: [2018-04-11] Bayern Munich vs Sevilla

Postby MUTU » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:43 pm

#12 wrote:
MUTU wrote:
#12 wrote:MUTU, watch closely: THIS is a shit ref!!

You need to get yourself checked out. I'm serious :)

This is a shit referee, you're right. But when you repeatedly refuse to blame Kassai last season and then blame Collum in this match, something's just not right. Kassai was at very least 7-8 times worse than Collum. One should not even contemplate discussing or comparing them again.


Kassai was bad for both teams - Collum
definitely gave them an advantage...
And not that it matters, but: we were even more shit back then... We didn’t deserve to win at all... That would’ve been a Chelsea-like result... He did not ruin the course of that game, that was downhill from the moment we wasted that penalty in Munich...

I know what the result of the check will be (I assume you meant an eye doctor...): he will find a lack of red and white glasses through which YOU saw RM-FCB
I wonder why Chiellini made reference to our match with Kassai if Kassai was bad for both teams. You are probably the only person on the planet with this opinion. Not even the biggest diehard RM fans could say such things.
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Re: [2018-04-11] Bayern Munich vs Sevilla

Postby #12 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:47 pm

MUTU wrote:
#12 wrote:
MUTU wrote:[quote="#12"]MUTU, watch closely: THIS is a shit ref!!

You need to get yourself checked out. I'm serious :)

This is a shit referee, you're right. But when you repeatedly refuse to blame Kassai last season and then blame Collum in this match, something's just not right. Kassai was at very least 7-8 times worse than Collum. One should not even contemplate discussing or comparing them again.


Kassai was bad for both teams - Collum
definitely gave them an advantage...
And not that it matters, but: we were even more shit back then... We didn’t deserve to win at all... That would’ve been a Chelsea-like result... He did not ruin the course of that game, that was downhill from the moment we wasted that penalty in Munich...

I know what the result of the check will be (I assume you meant an eye doctor...): he will find a lack of red and white glasses through which YOU saw RM-FCB
I wonder why Chiellini made reference to our match with Kassai if Kassai was bad for both teams. You are probably the only person on the planet with this opinion. Not even the biggest diehard RM fans could say such things.[/quote]

No I'm not... In fact I've read comments on this very board, maybe in this very thread saying the same...
Chiellini was angry and full of adrenaline after a nerve-wrecking game and looking for an example involving the same team and from recent history to legitimize his crying (which you yourself claimed Italians were good at) - of course he would come up with that game...
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Re: [2018-04-11] Bayern Munich vs Sevilla

Postby MUTU » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:48 pm

And out of so many matches he chose the one you believe was fair.
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Re: [2018-04-11] Bayern Munich vs Sevilla

Postby #12 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:58 pm

MUTU wrote:And out of so many matches he chose the one you believe was fair.


Yes...
I didn’t say fair, but it was more ore less balanced...

It was controversial though... And besides the entitled acting on here, there are not that many of those...
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Re: [2018-04-11] Bayern Munich vs Sevilla

Postby aterford » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:09 pm

Guardiola more or less said the same (about Kassai) just a few days ago
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Re: [2018-04-11] Bayern Munich vs Sevilla

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:11 pm

MUTU wrote:
#12 wrote:
MUTU wrote:[quote="#12"]MUTU, watch closely: THIS is a shit ref!!

You need to get yourself checked out. I'm serious :)

This is a shit referee, you're right. But when you repeatedly refuse to blame Kassai last season and then blame Collum in this match, something's just not right. Kassai was at very least 7-8 times worse than Collum. One should not even contemplate discussing or comparing them again.


Kassai was bad for both teams - Collum
definitely gave them an advantage...
And not that it matters, but: we were even more shit back then... We didn’t deserve to win at all... That would’ve been a Chelsea-like result... He did not ruin the course of that game, that was downhill from the moment we wasted that penalty in Munich...

I know what the result of the check will be (I assume you meant an eye doctor...): he will find a lack of red and white glasses through which YOU saw RM-FCB
I wonder why Chiellini made reference to our match with Kassai if Kassai was bad for both teams. You are probably the only person on the planet with this opinion. Not even the biggest diehard RM fans could say such things.[/quote]Really??

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Re: [2018-04-11] Bayern Munich vs Sevilla

Postby PunkCapitalist » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:12 am

RAJBAYERN wrote:
aterford wrote:
Like #12, I'm still of the opinion that we probably go out vs Real Madrid last year, even without Kassai.




No one can prove that, get back your mind before the injustice second yellow card Vidal received... Bayern was winning the game 2-1, tied the series and the second goal gave us an extra and also a pressure to Real Madrid, that we were attacking and more close to score the third goal instead of Real their second.

I can't prove that without that second yellow card for Vidal, we could advance, but playing with 10 kill our momentum and consequently affect our performance for the next 40 minutes.
You're right that we can't prove counterfactuals, but there are 3 factors which get constantly ignored by those who blame Kassai for the whole elimination:

1) Vidal had been fouling all game and was on a yellow from the 3rd minute or so... He was bound to get redcarded eventually. It wad a matter of time.

2) Our goals were all extremely lucky. One of side, a corner (and we were bad on corners at the time) and I don't remember what else.

3) We were barely creating any regular chances at all and our attack was hugely uncreative.

So, if we're going into counterfactual-land and ask ourselves "what if Vidal hadn't been sent off?", then it's also fair to ask "what if we hadn't been as lucky as we were up to that point?".

My conclusion is simple: we just didn't *deserve* to go through, regardless of Kassai. Was Kassai terrible in that match and favored Madrid? Yes, indeed. But blaming Kassai for our loss is wrong because it helps to hide the simple fact that our squad and tactics were not up to par anyway. We were BAD that season. That's the problem that needed and still needs to be addressed; and hiding behind Kassai only helps our board ignore that issue.

On the tactics side, they already did their job brining Jupp in this season (so we did eventually recognize that Ancelotti was doing poorly tactically!). But we only partially addressed the poor squad problem. We brought James who, IMO, serves to replace the creativity we loss with Ribery's decline (so that's a step in the right direction), but it can still be argued that we lack wingers and are still at least 1 player away from having a WC starting attacking lineup. The worst thing is that our squad is extremely poorly planned; we have something like 20 midfielders and only 3 pure wingers (out of which two are useless).

Blaming Kassai only helps hide that fact; that our squad is underwhelming and our tactics were poor..

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Re: [2018-04-11] Bayern Munich vs Sevilla

Postby #12 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:21 am

... so poor it took us 3 years to get a backup striker...
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Re: [2018-04-11] Bayern Munich vs Sevilla

Postby Manchu » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:26 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:Blaming Kassai only helps hide that fact; that our squad is underwhelming and our tactics were poor..

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I still think that we probably would have made it through if we had(and started) Lewandowski, Muller, Hummels, and Boateng both legs and just had the center backs continuously hit balls into the two forwards; all of our attacking creativity during that time period came from that strategy and Real Madrid's centerbacks did not react well to this when it was tried(once in the second leg it put Lewandowski through and about to a score when he was wrongly called offside; another resulted in Ramos' own goal).

Of course, that would require Ancelotti to be a competent coach instead of insisting on starting Alonso over Muller at all costs and refusing to buy a backup centerforward(which led to Lewandowski getting injured against Dortmund when he should have been taken off already or completely rested for the game).
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Re: [2018-04-11] Bayern Munich vs Sevilla

Postby PunkCapitalist » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:30 pm

Manchu wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:Blaming Kassai only helps hide that fact; that our squad is underwhelming and our tactics were poor..

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I still think that we probably would have made it through if we had(and started) Lewandowski, Muller, Hummels, and Boateng both legs and just had the center backs continuously hit balls into the two forwards; all of our attacking creativity during that time period came from that strategy and Real Madrid's centerbacks did not react well to this when it was tried(once in the second leg it put Lewandowski through and about to a score when he was wrongly called offside; another resulted in Ramos' own goal).

Of course, that would require Ancelotti to be a competent coach instead of insisting on starting Alonso over Muller at all costs and refusing to buy a backup centerforward(which led to Lewandowski getting injured against Dortmund when he should have been taken off already or completely rested for the game).
That's another counterfactual, but one that does not negate that blame was not on Kassai... It was on 1) Ancelotti (not only for what you said, also for not taking Vidal out before the red!) and 2) inedecuate squad planning.

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Re: [2018-04-11] Bayern Munich vs Sevilla

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:06 pm

#12 wrote:And not that it matters, but: we were even more shit back then... We didn’t deserve to win at all... That would’ve been a Chelsea-like result... He did not ruin the course of that game, that was downhill from the moment we wasted that penalty in Munich...

This is BS. Maybe we deserved to lose, but we can't be blamed if Real did not take advantage of our flaws. The truth is Kassai's decisions had a significant effect on the game and result, irrespective of whether the better team won. Without those mistakes, we were equal on aggregate, and that is all that matters in the end.

You can't blame Bayern when we are better but fail to score then also blame Bayern when Real do the same.
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