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[2016-04-05] Bayern Munich vs S.L. Benfica

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What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:45 pm

Bayern Munich will win
26
93%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
S.L. Benfica will win
2
7%
 
Total votes : 28

Re: [2016-04-05] Bayern Munich vs S.L. Benfica

Postby dambun » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:56 am

FCB Puerto Rico wrote:3) Costa isn't as effective playing on the right as he is on the left. Thiago played rather poorly today

Yeah... I was expecting Pep to make some tactical changes, but to my surprise, he didn't change much....

Costa was an utter failure on the right wing... I would have moved Mueller to the right and bring Costa to the middle... IMO we needed to change the dynamics of the game...

Another annoying thing I saw in the match was the fact that it appeared as if every single attacking player of ours was playing solely for himself... There was really not much cohesion once we reached the final 3rd!
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Re: [2016-04-05] Bayern Munich vs S.L. Benfica

Postby MUTU » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:01 am

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Re: [2016-04-05] Bayern Munich vs S.L. Benfica

Postby quaazi » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:35 am

dambun wrote:Costa was an utter failure on the right wing... I would have moved Mueller to the right and bring Costa to the middle... IMO we needed to change the dynamics of the game...

No he is not. The idea worked well in the first half, he had a few good shots at target and he released a superb Lahm overlap that lead to the other Vidal header. The real problem was in the second half when Pep decided he needed Lahm in the regista role through the middle, leaving Costa utterly isolated (the few times Martinez stepped out of the centerback line to enable backpasses barely helped). Simply put, yesterday he was the prime victim of a very conservative approach - justified in that we did not concede an away goal, but an approach we certainly would not have considered had we not scored 2 minutes into the game.
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Re: [2016-04-05] Bayern Munich vs S.L. Benfica

Postby bastos80 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:00 am

dambun wrote:
FCB Puerto Rico wrote:3) Costa isn't as effective playing on the right as he is on the left. Thiago played rather poorly today



Costa was an utter failure on the right wing... I would have moved Mueller to the right and bring Costa to the middle... IMO we needed to change the dynamics of the game...




I was thinking the same. Our midfield is pretty empty most of the time. Costa can play there as he already showed this season, and it doesn't really matter if Müller is invisible on the wing or in the center until he scores.
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Re: [2016-04-05] Bayern Munich vs S.L. Benfica

Postby tflags » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:18 pm

quaazi wrote:The real problem was in the second half when Pep decided he needed Lahm in the regista role through the middle, leaving Costa utterly isolated (the few times Martinez stepped out of the centerback line to enable backpasses barely helped).


And this is what bothers me about over-hyping Vidal's performance. Is he great? Sure. Did he save the game, absolutely. But isn't it too coincidental that his best performances are usually tied to Thiago's worst. I didn't mind the box to box midfielder under Heyncke's Bayern. But I am worried about the single pivot under Guardiola.

As good as it is to play Vidal in the God role, I simply don't want him everywhere; much less against bigger opposition. Not unless we switch to a 4-3-3 once and for all.
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Re: [2016-04-05] Bayern Munich vs S.L. Benfica

Postby tflags » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:26 pm

FCB Puerto Rico wrote:Post-international break always sucks. They will recover their form


Perfect synthesis of the game. But missing a point: will. Are they tired? I sincerely hope so. 'cause yesterday felt like another Juventus game with players lost, without aim and absolutely no pressing.

Bayern used to recover balls in midfield. Now teams are very comfortable rubbing elbows next to Neuer. Bayern used to spend their games on their attacking third. Now there's no midfield.

Costa might be doing good crosses from RM, but what do you call a game without a single run from the right flank?

Then you have either Ribéry or Costa from the left making crosses that find no one? We have two strikers in Lewan and Muller and none seem to find the ball in the box. This isn't normal.
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Re: [2016-04-05] Bayern Munich vs S.L. Benfica

Postby bastos80 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:47 pm

tflags wrote:
quaazi wrote:The real problem was in the second half when Pep decided he needed Lahm in the regista role through the middle, leaving Costa utterly isolated (the few times Martinez stepped out of the centerback line to enable backpasses barely helped).


And this is what bothers me about over-hyping Vidal's performance. Is he great? Sure. Did he save the game, absolutely. But isn't it too coincidental that his best performances are usually tied to Thiago's worst. I didn't mind the box to box midfielder under Heyncke's Bayern. But I am worried about the single pivot under Guardiola.

As good as it is to play Vidal in the God role, I simply don't want him everywhere; much less against bigger opposition. Not unless we switch to a 4-3-3 once and for all.



I thought Thiago is playing great. :roll:
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Re: [2016-04-05] Bayern Munich vs S.L. Benfica

Postby #12 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:21 pm

Crappy game, and really bad result...

I got a lot of heat (even though I was misunderstood...) for that "I told you so" remark a few weeks ago... But I'm gonna risk it anyways: I told you so! What I mean? I had a discussion with bastos - and others - here, saying that we are weak on offense... And yesterday's game showed that it is IN FACT nearly impossible to pull a trigger and all odf a sudden reach peak form and play great: we played the same shit we played against Frankfurt and Köln...
No, you don't have to score 4, 5 and 6 times every other week... And I wouldn't expect that... But if you take the lead 100 seconds into the game you have to push for the second goal - especially when your coach has a knockout stage record that reads worse than the Bundesliga record of Tasmania Berlin... Again: I don't expect us to beat every team up like there was no tommorrow... But all the usual empty phrases of "great team" and all that shit aside: it was Benfica Lisbon! I mean, there's WAAAAAAYYYYY better opposition in this tournament... If you can't put two past Lisbon, how are you gonna play against the real deal teams?!
What we witnessed yesterday was a missed opportunity, and say what you want: it's very likely it was also the first step to our elimination in this competition... 1-0 leaves me not very optimistic, especially considering our last away performances... (btw: is the grandmaster still the grandmaster after he **** up against Benfica? I mean, people WILL find excuses and all, but still... Good thing he's leaving for City -with not a single convincing knockout tie in 3 years, quite impressive - where he can spend hatever he wants... Maybe he'll even for once learn from his mistakes and actually improve... ;) )
The one positive to take from this game is that we didn't concede - even though we were begging for it several times (Bernat #-o )...

dambun wrote:Another annoying thing I saw in the match was the fact that it appeared as if every single attacking player of ours was playing solely for himself...


Except for the one situation where it was neccessary: Mr. Robert Lewandowski #-o #-o #-o
That must've been the shittiest pass ever - and there were quite a few yesterday alone...
We all know Costa is not the player he was in Hinrunde - but that's a phenomenon that's nor uniquely his, neither quite new in Munich... :roll: - but he is simply wasted on the right... He is NO right winger... By the time we got a right winger our game was already so much leaning to the left even Lenin would've begged us to stop..
Bernat is probably never going to lear how to take a shot EVER, and he should get a personal coach that tells him when to pass and avoid sensless dribbling, but he was actually decent IMHO (haven't seen the game on TV yet...)
Our strikers were actually pitiful because they were hanging in the air and completely left there... There was little to no movement in WAY too many situations and we're playing WAYYYYYY too much in the back... Which also increases danger of conceding... And IIRC scoring can only be done in the opponent's box... :roll:

1-0 is actually a better result for them than for us...
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Re: [2016-04-05] Bayern Munich vs S.L. Benfica

Postby bastos80 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:31 pm

#12 wrote: But all the usual empty phrases of "great team" and all that shit aside: it was Benfica Lisbon! I mean, there's WAAAAAAYYYYY better opposition in this tournament... If you can't put two past Lisbon, how are you gonna play against the real deal teams?!


We stopped playing after 15 minutes and what came out was probably the worst performance of a Bayern team I've seen in the last 3 years. We were lucky this wasn't a toughter opponent. I actually have a feeling any opponent that isn't Dortmund, Real or Barcelona is unable to push us to really give our maximum at this point of the season.
I hope I'm right and that this minimalist approach is only due to the lack of respect towards our opponents and we'll see the real Bayern again if we make it past Benfica.



#12 wrote:1-0 is actually a better result for them than for us...


I disagree. They've got no away goal. One goal conceded at home would probably knock them out.
Bayern not scoring is quite unlikely. Benfica didn't impress me either. We played so bad and they made nothing out of it.
Feeling way more comfortable than I did before the second leg against Juventus, knowing that a goal conceded there would be much worse than in their stadium.
You'd take a 1:0 against Barcelona and Madrid, wouldn't you? So why is it that it's suddenly a worse result for us, just because the opponent was Benfica and we didn't trash them 5:0 like some people expected?
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Re: [2016-04-05] Bayern Munich vs S.L. Benfica

Postby #12 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:38 pm

bastos80 wrote:We stopped playing after 15 minutes and what came out was probably the worst performance of a Bayern team I've seen in the last 3 years. We were lucky this wasn't a toughter opponent. I actually have a feeling any opponent that isn't Dortmund, Real or Barcelona is unable to push us to really give our maximum at this point of the season.
I hope I'm right and that this minimalist approach is only due to the lack of respect towards our opponents and we'll see the real Bayern again if we make it past Benfica.


Ummmmm... I wouldn't even dare to oppose you - for lack of arguments - if there weren't one thing: Juventus-tie?!

bastos80 wrote:I disagree. They've got no away goal. One goal conceded at home would probably knock them out.
Bayern not scoring is quite unlikely. Benfica didn't impress me either. We played so bad and they made nothing out of it.
Feeling way more comfortable than I did before the second leg against Juventus, knowing that a goal conceded there would be much worse than in their stadium.


actually, when I saw you replied I expected a lot of heat... :D :P
But us playing bad is actually close to my observation...
They didn't impress me, but they weren't too bad either... But: this should actually be one of those opponents that only plays as good as we LET them...
That unlikeliness of the not scoring though is where I'm not so convinced - we barely score in Guardiola-away games in the knockout stages... But maybe it's more the first leg than the away game?! Because this is actually a first (us having the first leg at home)...
And we also lost 3-1 in Porto a year ago... A result that would eliminate us next Wednesday...
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Re: [2016-04-05] Bayern Munich vs S.L. Benfica

Postby bastos80 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:51 pm

#12 wrote:Ummmmm... I wouldn't even dare to oppose you - for lack of arguments - if there weren't one thing: Juventus-tie?!


What about the Juventus tie?
We played world-class the first 60 minutes, scored two goals, and then stopped playing. Losing focus and maybe even respect for the opponent.
In the second leg we started where we left off. Maybe the talk of Allianz Arena as an unassailable fortress made the players believe it really was like that.
After the winter break I've got the feeling we're only doing as much as we think we have to. Just look at the Mainz game, that was total bs. 3 (?) days later against Dortmund it was a different story. Our concentration was on a totally different level. It appears we're always thinking 2-3 games ahead about the opponents that we think are the most dangerous... That was the problem against Juve, there really was no effort in the first half of the second leg and the last 30 minutes of the first leg.
Actually this seems like it is the case since Guardiola is here. Shakhtar, Porto, Manchester United, Juventus... We always REact against those teams. We barely act.


actually, when I saw you replied I expected a lot of heat... :D :P
But us playing bad is actually close to my observation...
They didn't impress me, but they weren't too bad either... But: this should actually be one of those opponents that only plays as good as we LET them...
That unlikeliness of the not scoring though is where I'm not so convinced - we barely score in Guardiola-away games in the knockout stages... But maybe it's more the first leg than the away game?! Because this is actually a first (us having the first leg at home)...
And we also lost 3-1 in Porto a year ago... A result that would eliminate us next Wednesday...


Benfica weren't too bad yeah, something you'd expect of a last-8 team in the CL and a team that is about to win it's 3rd champions title in a row.
A really good team would've punished us for that lazy performance though.
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Re: [2016-04-05] Bayern Munich vs S.L. Benfica

Postby ottackon » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:58 pm

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1. Arturo Vidal had his best game in a Bayern shirt
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4. The partnership Robert Lewandowski and Thomas Müller is effective, but static
5. Javi Martinez is going to be rushed back, and not by choice
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Re: [2016-04-05] Bayern Munich vs S.L. Benfica

Postby dambun » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:39 pm

quaazi wrote:
dambun wrote:Costa was an utter failure on the right wing... I would have moved Mueller to the right and bring Costa to the middle... IMO we needed to change the dynamics of the game...

No he is not. The idea worked well in the first half, he had a few good shots at target and he released a superb Lahm overlap that lead to the other Vidal header. The real problem was in the second half when Pep decided he needed Lahm in the regista role through the middle, leaving Costa utterly isolated (the few times Martinez stepped out of the centerback line to enable backpasses barely helped). Simply put, yesterday he was the prime victim of a very conservative approach - justified in that we did not concede an away goal, but an approach we certainly would not have considered had we not scored 2 minutes into the game.


"No he is not"??
He is not what? I am not saying Costa is a bad player, or that he is incapable of ever playing as a right winger... All I'm saying is that he was ineffective in that role, and I think the stats would back that up... As far as I remember, he had only one shot on the target, which was not that dangerous to be honest...

Apart from that, I agree with most of your analysis... We definitely did want to prevent them from scoring, and because of our usual defensive strategy, and especially because we don't have fit CBs at the moments, we needed to control possession, in which, we were not as successful as usual... To prevent them from scoring, we needed to control the midfield and we needed to put some attacking pressure on them... and this was not helped by having a totally isolated Costa on the right wing... back to my statement, "we needed to change the dynamics of the game"... We were lucky not to concede a goal without doing so...
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Re: [2016-04-05] Bayern Munich vs S.L. Benfica

Postby Bayernbazi » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:39 pm

We also killed any hint of taking advantage from counters.
When Costa came, I was glad to see the return of the counter again initiative. I think ut was against Stuttgart but we lost that ability somewhere along the 1st half of the season.
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Re: [2016-04-05] Bayern Munich vs S.L. Benfica

Postby dambun » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:43 pm

tflags wrote:Bayern used to recover balls in midfield. Now teams are very comfortable rubbing elbows next to Neuer. Bayern used to spend their games on their attacking third. Now there's no midfield.

Yeah... This bothers me a lot... Now that we don't have the usual center backs, it is even more important to control the midfield, recovering balls as fast as possible and giving the opposition no time to put us under pressure...
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