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[2012-04-17] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:45 pm

Bayern Munich will win
31
82%
It will end in a draw
4
11%
Real Madrid will win
3
8%
 
Total votes : 38

Re: [2012-04-17] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby AdepT » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:15 pm

CuriousReal wrote:Thanks for the welcome pVnAdEpT!

My first post was a bit rushy. Hence why i would want it removed. My second post that i made has valid points i belive.

Although i just wanted to add a reply that Real Madrids last game was infact against osasuna and it was almost 7-0 i think it was 5-0 or 5-1 if im not misstaken.


I checked it for you and it was 5-1.

There you see, your own logic has failed you. :twisted:

As for Shalke losing to Bilbao, even though AB are at 11, they are a good team and even RM and Barca have chances of losing against them. Even Man U lost to Bilbao and Basel. Things like these happen in sports and they are termed UPSETS. That's the unpredictable nature of football. There are great teams and then there are 'giant-slayers' : 8)

Lets hope for a great match.
I just can't wait! :D 11 , 18 , 26 April..... Go Bayern!
(Just to inform you, on 11 its BM vs Dortmund)

Oh and I hate Uefalona as much as you do! 8) One thing we might both agree on.
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Re: [2012-04-17] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby CuriousReal » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:23 pm

The thing is guys. i assume most of you know that the whole 18-1 isnt being serious. Also the matches i was refeering too was all in the timelaps of perhaps 2 weeks? It was the same Leverkusen that got beaten by barca that did play you guys. Not the 2009 lyon or somehting. What i ment with that post. if Real were to face a leverkusen that bad. A team that had basically given up and didnt dare to even touch the ball. Who couldnt make a single pass throughout an entire game there would have been redicilously ammount of goals. (PROBABLY)

Anywho sure Apoel scored against real. 1 open play goal and one non valid penalty. They scored because real didnt really try to do much. becuase there's no point going all in and risk injuries and such if you're leading 6-0 at home ground. (over 2legs) As you could see they played very relaxed and slooopy at that point. but cudos to them for the goal. it was the 5th goal real has conceded the entire tournament. (Lowest ammount of all teams i might add )

Now when we got this whole comparison thing out of the question. perhaps you will be able to give some answers to some of the statements that i did in my second post.

Cheers!
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Re: [2012-04-17] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:24 pm

@CuriousReal: Trust me, no one here is taking this game lately. We all know that it's the toughest test of the season so far. But we are reasonably optimistic. There is no clear favourite in the tie.

Good luck, and may the best team win.

-----------------


This is an interesting article about the historical background of the tie: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog ... ons-league
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Re: [2012-04-17] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby AdepT » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:42 pm

CuriousReal wrote:The thing is guys. i assume most of you know that the whole 18-1 isnt being serious. Also the matches i was refeering too was all in the timelaps of perhaps 2 weeks? It was the same Leverkusen that got beaten by barca that did play you guys. Not the 2009 lyon or somehting. What i ment with that post. if Real were to face a leverkusen that bad. A team that had basically given up and didnt dare to even touch the ball. Who couldnt make a single pass throughout an entire game there would have been redicilously ammount of goals. (PROBABLY)

Anywho sure Apoel scored against real. 1 open play goal and one non valid penalty. They scored because real didnt really try to do much. becuase there's no point going all in and risk injuries and such if you're leading 6-0 at home ground. (over 2legs) As you could see they played very relaxed and slooopy at that point. but cudos to them for the goal. it was the 5th goal real has conceded the entire tournament. (Lowest ammount of all teams i might add )

Now when we got this whole comparison thing out of the question. perhaps you will be able to give some answers to some of the statements that i did in my second post.

Cheers!



You yourself said that Bayern have better chance of beating Barcelona. Even I believe it!

As for stats check these http://www.soccerstats.com/team.asp?lea ... &teamid=15
http://www.soccerstats.com/team.asp?lea ... y&teamid=2

RM have conceded 17 goals at home while Bayern has conceded only 5. 8)

Check ur stats please! :P

As for bench strength, I do not intend to deny RM has better bench strength. But do keep in mind they would sitting on bench. It's the 11 players that will be on the pitch that matter and Bayern top 11 can be there for 90 mins barring injuries/fouls(which we do hope to avoid).

and regarding Bilbao beating Shalke, I just explained it my previous post!
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Re: [2012-04-17] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby AdepT » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:56 pm

Oh and if you are talking of only CL, then the stats are
Goals Conceded
Total Away Home
Real 6 1 5

Bayern 7 4 3


The previous ones were in respective leagues.

Now I don't want bring up who faced better opposition. We all know BM beat better and stronger teams than RM has faced till now.
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Re: [2012-04-17] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby CuriousReal » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:33 pm

Well by adding that little sentence in the end you're forcing me into discussing that. BM has beaten teams that got beaten by the teams Real Madrid beat every day in the league. Over 2 legs.

Everyone thought your group would be pretty insane. But it appears to be pretty bad quality in england atm. Looking at chelsea yesterday. Struggling with 10men against who exactly? Against some team that people barely know of. benifica?


That aside. What do you guys think about Barcelonas way to the final. They got in my opinoin the easiest way to there. But you know how those people are. They are like southamerican natives. I hate them. Anyway! They think they got the hardest one even though in my opinion it's only great names. Chelsea and Milan might sound good but right now, they're not really that good.

I belive that Real Madrid and Bayern got the hardest ways to final as one of us is going to be eliminated and its pretty 50/50 even thouhg it's more like 60/40 :mrgreen:
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Re: [2012-04-17] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby AssemFCB » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:01 pm

By CuriousReal logic we'd have beaten Arsenal 16-3 and Man United 9-1. Just saying.
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Re: [2012-04-17] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby Aequitas1987 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:23 pm

The point that CuriousReal made valid and I agree with is that Bayerns Best and Real Madrids best is fairly even (Though I think Bayern has the edge in that sense because of German tournament mentality and history vs Real) but Real's lowest is MUCH better than Bayern's lowest. If we don't show up to play our best two games of the season we will lose this encounter. Luckily for us we already had our slump and recovered and dont look like stopping anytime soon.

I think our starting 11 vs your starting 11 is fairly even. I don't think our defense is worse. I think Alaba is more than capable of not crumbling under pressure against your World-Class wingers.

There will be two key battles IF Real plays an open game at AA, if they sit back and counter I am not quite sure.

Neuer vs Casillas (The better big game keeper will make the difference in the end)
Muller vs Ozil (Both are highly creative players but Muller's work-rate destroys Ozil's, I think he might be the reason we get some key goals in the home leg)
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Re: [2012-04-17] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby MUTU » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:52 pm

CuriousReal wrote:But where it's different is in your shabby defence. Real will dance around the defenders of your teams.

On paper, Real Madrid have better individual players, or rather bigger names. But everyone knows that fame and good defences don't have anything to do with each other. A good defence is made out of great organisation. Now, Real Madrid do have the greatest coach in the world for organising defences. And yet, the combination of the better names with the best organising coach...

FC Bayern - 28 Bundesliga matches played, 18 goals conceded (0.64 goals per match)
Real Madrid - 30 La Liga matches played, 27 goals conceded (0.9 goals per match)

And in the Champions League?
Out of Real Madrid's last 6 matches, they let in 6 goals. 2 against mighty Dinamo Zagreb, 2 against the scary CSKA Moscow, and another 2 against the legendary APOEL.
Out of FC Bayern's last 6 matches, they let in 4 goals. 1 against Villarreal, 2 with their reserves against Manchester City and 1 against FC Basel.

A better defence? You decide.
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Re: [2012-04-17] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby AdepT » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:56 pm

AssemFCB wrote:By CuriousReal logic we'd have beaten Arsenal 16-3 and Man United 9-1. Just saying.


But he just doesn't seem to get it! :D

@CuriousReal

Saying that RM defeated the teams that defeated the teams that were defeated by BM by no means deduces that RM can defeat BM.

If A>B and B>C, and D>C, then A>C. You cannot say that A>D 'coz that isn't deducible.
Hope it helps. :D

Benfica does not have global appeal but by no means you can say their current team isn't good.
Chelsea has already come too far and I'm still surprised. May be Lady Luck thought of giving them semis this year 'coz next year they're not gonna be in CL.
Barcelona did play better against Milan at home and away. Milan screwed up at their home by missing easy chances and were outplayed and "OUT-REFEREED" at camp nou.

As for semis, I have a theory of my own. It goes like this-
Uefa wants classico final, so obviously they kept RM and Barca separate.
They want Barca to be in finals and making records and then calling them the greatest team etc etc.
So they kept RM and Bayern both out of Barca's way 'coz realistically speaking only these two teams have a chance to defeat them over 2 legs. They also wanted hyped semis and planned to pit rivals against each other.
RM and Bayern have bitter history, so do Barca and Chelsea.
RM vs BM is gr8 'coz
1. 2 mouth-watering clashes. Bayern's fortress Allianz Arena vs Real's fortress Bernabeu ( seeing their home records)
2. If RM make it , a classico final. UEFA, happy as shit! [-X [-X
OR if Bayern make it, then so called 'curse' that no home team has ever reached the CL final at its home will be broken. It would make for a great tie of equals, Bayern@home vs Barca!

and it's time uefalona is shown the door!
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Re: [2012-04-17] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby tflags » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:37 am

CuriousReal wrote:I belive that Real Madrid and Bayern got the hardest ways to final as one of us is going to be eliminated and its pretty 50/50 even thouhg it's more like 60/40 :mrgreen:


For a team that hasn't faced anyone from England, Spain or Italy this CL season you seem to be sure you'll beat one that has. Seems almost ignorant to be honest. The only team I believe both sides have faced this season is Villarreal which if I am not mistaken Madrid couldn't beat while away; even considering all the injuries Villarreal had. And yet it was such an easy game for us both legs despite their full roster at the start of the season...
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Re: [2012-04-17] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby CuriousReal » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:41 am

My response with the whole BM>MU<spanishteam<real was that someone claimed that BM had a MUCH harder grp than real. on paper yes. But the teams havent performed anything this season. ManU And ManC that is.

And i don't know if you can really compare the offenseive force between them. Well you can compare, but i do belive Real has the edge there. Ronaldo,Benzema,dimaria. All of them are much better overall football players than Gomez. for starters. With Ronaldo&gomez scoring like few. And i personally rate Di maria and Benzema higher than the others as well. Di maria must be the best in the world in his position this season. been injured for 3 months and pretty much leading the assist league in laliga still.. Impressive. Benzema is scoring a lot of goals in CL 26 goals in 41 games. That's more than messi did at the same stage.
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Re: [2012-04-17] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby The Spyware » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:47 am

There have been a lot of talks already here :D

I have brief points to raise:

- We will have a big problem that both our full backs are very short :( and they have Cristiano which is a very good tall strong header , that is a major problem , Already Boa - Badstuber are quite average in crosses and with both Lahm and Alaba we will struggle a lot in crosses , Remember for example Ronaldo's goal in the Cup final last year , I fear the same in the crosses at the far post with our short FBs , Also see Hannover's goal in us two weaks ago , A cross at the far post with Diuf easily outpowering lahm in the air and put it to the free Ya Konan , Also If you remember Serbia's goal against Germany in last WC it was the same but Zigic them easily out powered Lahm. It will be a big problem IMO Cristiano v Our FBs in the air.

- We are so bad in set pieces and corners and we have only two tall players that can jump (Gomez and sometimes Boateng who has very bad timing) While Real are very strong with Ozil/Alonso in the corners and set pieces around the box and also many good headers. And If Gustavo play it's a must that we will concede many dangerous fouls around the penalty area.

- Bad thing that Real have Classico in between so that Mourinho will be wanting a comfortable result in Munich and I think unfortunately he will try to press and attack , I think If he takes a defensive approach it will be easier for us

- For Me , ANY win in Muchen for Us = Qulaification ISA
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Re: [2012-04-17] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby walter » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:23 am

Trying to be objective in doing a player by player (actually, I will lump together CBs and CMs in my assessment) comparison:

1) Casillas > Neuer (If only slightly but Casillas still ahead on account of experience)

2) Lahm > Arbeloa (big difference here).

3) Madrid CB duo > Bayern CB duo (although I don't think the difference is big. They also have the hot-head, asshole Pepe, who is always a liability)

4) Marcelo = Alaba (yes, some of you might be surprised about this, but Alaba has been a revelation playing as LB and Marcelo is not all that good defensively. Alaba is certainly a more balanced LB).

5) Bayern's CM duo (Gustavo, Schweini) > Real's CM duo (Alonso, Khedira). This one should be obvious. Alonso is either really overrated or he has declined tremendously since moving to Madrid. The guy can pass the ball, don't get me wrong, but that's basically his only top skill. Schweini is WAY better than Alonso. Schweini runs, defends, scores, dribbles, passes, everything! far more complete as a player than Alonso. Regarding Khedira, just go to a Real Madrid forum and check what they say about him.

6) Ronaldo > Ribery. Ronaldo is second only to Messi. Nuff said.

7) Robben > Di Maria or Ozil (Ozil gets played as a right winger nowadays). No contest here, Robben is Robben, unstoppable when in form.

8) Kaka = Muller. Ok, Kaka is a much bigger name but it's only recently that he has recovered some of his old form. Muller in top form is more dangerous than what Kaka has ever been on a Madrid shirt.

9) Gomez = Benzema. Benzema might have better technical skills but when we judge a striker then goals is what counts, if anything we would have to give the edge to Gomez.

Mourinho > Heynckes, although if you look at team play we are better. Madrid only shines mostly because of the quality of Ronaldo, who is BTW, even more selfish than Robben.

So, in conclusion, very tough to call. Madrid will have the advantage of playing the return leg at home, but in all honesty I don't think it will be difficult to create chances against them. I see them play almost every week (I follow Ozil) and they are very weak in the center of the park and their fullbacks are either too offensive (Marcelo) or simply subpar (Arbeloa).
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Re: [2012-04-17] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby walter » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:11 am

Against some team that people barely know of. benifica?
:shock:

Do you even know anything about football to begin with? For your records, Benfica has played 8 European finals. Always a strong team with lots of tradition.
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