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[2014-04-29] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:45 pm

Bayern Munich will go through after 90 minutes
36
62%
Bayern Munich will go through after extra time
6
10%
Bayern Munich will go through after penalties
3
5%
Real Madrid will go through after penalties
1
2%
Real Madrid will go through after extra time
0
No votes
Real Madrid will go through on away goals rule after 90 minutes
7
12%
Real Madrid will go through on aggregate after 90 minutes
5
9%
 
Total votes : 58

Re: [2014-04-29] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby MUTU » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:21 pm

Element wrote:And Philipp Lahm was the only one who wanted to Play football from our team

This is unfair. Martinez and especially Robben were trying hard as well. Robben kept trying and trying and trying and trying some more. It's what I admire most about him: he never gives up, and he's done it time and time again.
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Re: [2014-04-29] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby MUTU » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:24 pm

Thread poll results: 91% of us are fools :)
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Re: [2014-04-29] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby AdepT » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:32 pm

Element wrote:Actually 3 from set pieces

Nobody can take a joke now. :roll: :P
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Re: [2014-04-29] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby scaPEPgoat » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:08 pm

There are 2 things I will be glad to not have to hear anymore:
1. To remain stagnant in football is to regress. (Try if it ain't broke don't fix it)
2. Pep has taken FCB to the next level. (he may have taken us to next level but in wrong direction)
But to be fair I have had my scapegoat chosen since the season started.

And although it did not end up mattering, How does UEFA assign a Portuguese ref for this game? Finals in Lisbon? CR7?
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Re: [2014-04-29] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby tflags » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:16 pm

I'd say we put it to a vote:

A. Pep goes, NOW DAMMIT!
B. Pep stays, Don Draper style: No drinking, adultering (I just made that word up) or smoking while at the office (that's 1960s talk for tiki-taka)
C. Pep stays, gets the benefit of the doubt, we blame Nerlinger again.
D. Pep rules, we reinforce, hope the WC doesn't kill anyone, we do a 2013 on steroids. Send Ribéry on a soul searching trip while at it.
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Re: [2014-04-29] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby raz25 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:20 pm

'Immer weiter'.

That's the one thing I truly regret from last night, makes me want to cry right now. We had an incredible choreography with legendary Oli Kahn's words right there, 'immer weiter, immer weiter'. It would have been immense if players actually took that to the heart and made it 3-1 after their opening. It's a shame to think that it should have been displayed at the end, damn.

I was a little drunk, maybe I watched another match, but I thought that until Ramos' first goal the players were truly making Real feel like in hell; I guess they were euphoric and motivated by the fans' support and Der Titan's words as well. We didn't create a single good chance and Neuer was close to making a huge blunder, but mind you, I thought Real couldn't breathe. We were all over the place, we were pressing, we were having really nice combinations between players, we recovered a lot of balls, culminating with Alaba's great effort to avoid a corner kick, which also initiated another attack from us. I was trembling, I thought it would be a really close-fought match. Boy, how wrong could I be? It's an absolute shame that we couldn't have the same mentality throughout the entire match. After being 2-0 down, making it 3 out of 3 goals received from set pieces, needing 4 goals and actually being truly fired up for the game in the beginning it's easy to conclude that mostly anybody on the pitch would get hopeless. I'm not making an excuse for them, don't get me wrong.

It's though to blame Schweinsteiger and Kroos, they were always weak payers mentally to me and when the going gets tough I'd guess them first to collapse; And when the going gets tough you pass the ball to Ribery, the man who dragged your ass and your teammates' asses for 2,3 or 7 years; And when Ribery can't do shit, you know you are screwed. I'm not disappointed in Ribery, we know who he is. It was a huge blow to him not winning ballon d'or, and then there was all this trash talk in the press how he's useless, out of form and even after his world class display against Bremen, Pep said that he needs to be angry against Real. No, he doesn't need to be angry, he needs full support from the team and he needs to have fun on the pitch (as stated by him). And when Ribery has fun, Ribery is the best in the world.

Just like you, I also blame Pep for not starting Martinez in midfield, but not from a tactical point of view. Gone are the days when we had true leaders like Effenberg or Kahn and while it's true that Schweinsteiger/Kroos offer much more going forward, Martinez was the only CM (at least available) that we can call a fighter, a much needed presence in this type of match.

I am tough disappointed in Mandzukic, it feels like he has his packs ready for Brazil or another team. I'm joking but he was completely invisible and it felt like Gomez was playing, albeit a looking-to-kill-somebody-Gomez. I don't have much to say about Robben and Muller, Real Madrid played two incredible matches and they had too little space to create anything special.

That said, I congratulate Pep on a very successful first season, and asking for his dismissal is complete shambles to me. Our best this season tactical wise, was, dare I say, better than last season. Pep had this 4-1-4-1 idea which was quickly criticized before and after the first few official matches, but which left most of us (and the world) in awe at times all the way until the winter break. Of course our early success was much due to the fierce competition for places, our opponents having no idea how to fight against us and of course, 'that special something' that Pep needed for that to work, Thiago.

Pep definitely realized that Thiago was instrumental for the future of this system so he had to prepare something in case Thiago is unavailable, or out of form. We've seen 3-6-1, 4-2-3-1 and other variations, but there's no hope when every single one of your attacking players (bar Robben) gets out of form or when your CBs cannot win an aerial challenge towards the most crucial part of the season. Pep and also Sammer have to take some of the blame for that, but we must not exclude the circumstances; We came from a treble winning year, we won the European Supercup and CWC and the Bundesliga in record time. You have to agree that it was a huge task to maintain all these players motivated throughout the entire season. I am convinced that Pep is not an idiot, and that by next year we'll be much better prepared to fight against different styles. Remember how in 2013 we used to call Pep a tactical genius even after executing some corner kick or free kick, I'll leave it at that with the whole 'Pep Raus' thing.

I know losing to your European archenemy at home like this is tough to swallow but the future still looks very bright for Bayern. I want to end it as I began, 'immer weiter, immer weiter'.
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Re: [2014-04-29] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby Ruh7 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:31 pm

I am new to this board but I am super angry over the fact that Bayern lost to this classless Madrid team. It is also terrible because I hate all the Ronaldo fans and annoying bandwagoners. That is what hurts the most. The future looks great though. I think Rode and Lewy will be great additions to this team. Bayern just looked frustrated and did not close down. There is always next year.
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Re: [2014-04-29] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:49 pm

Bayernbazi wrote:Even if it was true that I recorded the match to watch it later, they would have spoiled it for me. We are surely are the talk of the town for the wrong reason.....

At the office I don't taunt anyone so there wasn't much flak apart from a couple of barbs from a some who were interested to discuss the match which were easily dealt with although each one re-opens the wound of the humilation.

But this morning I was a bit around and about and switching on the car radio, there were to guys chatting and soon they started speaking about the incredible result from real dishing out all the clichés, how they gave bayern a lesson in football, who would expected such a result a year ago, possession without achievements etc. tbh they did mention that this is football and there were ups and downs but this didn't make make things better so decided to switch off the radio.

Next I pull over at the petrol station, there's this guy speaking to the attendant and I overhear 4 goals at home incredible, Sergio Ramos’ scoring two headers, set pieces broke Bayern down, the speed of Ronaldo Bale etc. this is not helping to forget, if I could I'll hibernate for the rest of this week until waters calm down a little

What is absolutely getting on my nerves are a handful of Man United and Juve fans who are completely unreasonable and are trying to say that our season was a failure and hiring Guardiola was a huge mistake. Their clubs at the moment are not even half what Bayern is. It takes a lot of nerve to say Bayern are so bad when your team got eliminated by them (United) or your team didn't even make it past the group stage, has not reached a semifinal in 11 years, and has only reached the knockout stages once in the last 5 years (Juve).

Most others fans have not taunted me much. They have realised that I am being reasonable and accepted the defeat and congratulated our opponents. Actually the Real Madrid fans have been the most resepctful. I am not feeling sad discussing the loss with other reasonable fans, whoever they support. I can see that this does not reflect Bayern's real potential and see it as an opportunity for Bayern to tackle its problems, improve and come back stronger next season. We can reclaim the the title in as soon as 12 months' time.
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Re: [2014-04-29] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby MUTU » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:50 pm

I just checked our results, and the last time we lost by a goal difference of 4 or more goals was way back in 10th March 1979. Shocking!
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Re: [2014-04-29] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:01 pm

raz25 wrote:'Immer weiter'.

That's the one thing I truly regret from last night, makes me want to cry right now. We had an incredible choreography with legendary Oli Kahn's words right there, 'immer weiter, immer weiter'. It would have been immense if players actually took that to the heart and made it 3-1 after their opening. It's a shame to think that it should have been displayed at the end, damn.

I was a little drunk, maybe I watched another match, but I thought that until Ramos' first goal the players were truly making Real feel like in hell; I guess they were euphoric and motivated by the fans' support and Der Titan's words as well. We didn't create a single good chance and Neuer was close to making a huge blunder, but mind you, I thought Real couldn't breathe. We were all over the place, we were pressing, we were having really nice combinations between players, we recovered a lot of balls, culminating with Alaba's great effort to avoid a corner kick, which also initiated another attack from us. I was trembling, I thought it would be a really close-fought match. Boy, how wrong could I be? It's an absolute shame that we couldn't have the same mentality throughout the entire match. After being 2-0 down, making it 3 out of 3 goals received from set pieces, needing 4 goals and actually being truly fired up for the game in the beginning it's easy to conclude that mostly anybody on the pitch would get hopeless. I'm not making an excuse for them, don't get me wrong.

It's though to blame Schweinsteiger and Kroos, they were always weak payers mentally to me and when the going gets tough I'd guess them first to collapse; And when the going gets tough you pass the ball to Ribery, the man who dragged your ass and your teammates' asses for 2,3 or 7 years; And when Ribery can't do shit, you know you are screwed. I'm not disappointed in Ribery, we know who he is. It was a huge blow to him not winning ballon d'or, and then there was all this trash talk in the press how he's useless, out of form and even after his world class display against Bremen, Pep said that he needs to be angry against Real. No, he doesn't need to be angry, he needs full support from the team and he needs to have fun on the pitch (as stated by him). And when Ribery has fun, Ribery is the best in the world.

Just like you, I also blame Pep for not starting Martinez in midfield, but not from a tactical point of view. Gone are the days when we had true leaders like Effenberg or Kahn and while it's true that Schweinsteiger/Kroos offer much more going forward, Martinez was the only CM (at least available) that we can call a fighter, a much needed presence in this type of match.

I am tough disappointed in Mandzukic, it feels like he has his packs ready for Brazil or another team. I'm joking but he was completely invisible and it felt like Gomez was playing, albeit a looking-to-kill-somebody-Gomez. I don't have much to say about Robben and Muller, Real Madrid played two incredible matches and they had too little space to create anything special.

That said, I congratulate Pep on a very successful first season, and asking for his dismissal is complete shambles to me. Our best this season tactical wise, was, dare I say, better than last season. Pep had this 4-1-4-1 idea which was quickly criticized before and after the first few official matches, but which left most of us (and the world) in awe at times all the way until the winter break. Of course our early success was much due to the fierce competition for places, our opponents having no idea how to fight against us and of course, 'that special something' that Pep needed for that to work, Thiago.

Pep definitely realized that Thiago was instrumental for the future of this system so he had to prepare something in case Thiago is unavailable, or out of form. We've seen 3-6-1, 4-2-3-1 and other variations, but there's no hope when every single one of your attacking players (bar Robben) gets out of form or when your CBs cannot win an aerial challenge towards the most crucial part of the season. Pep and also Sammer have to take some of the blame for that, but we must not exclude the circumstances; We came from a treble winning year, we won the European Supercup and CWC and the Bundesliga in record time. You have to agree that it was a huge task to maintain all these players motivated throughout the entire season. I am convinced that Pep is not an idiot, and that by next year we'll be much better prepared to fight against different styles. Remember how in 2013 we used to call Pep a tactical genius even after executing some corner kick or free kick, I'll leave it at that with the whole 'Pep Raus' thing.

I know losing to your European archenemy at home like this is tough to swallow but the future still looks very bright for Bayern. I want to end it as I began, 'immer weiter, immer weiter'.


I agree 150%. =D> =D> =D>
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Re: [2014-04-29] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby Badger » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:17 pm

I feel that it is not appropriate to say too soon that there was anything good about Bayern’s result last night; it could come across as a fan in denial. However, there is one thing that I am now grateful for. I’m glad it was a huge defeat rather than a small one. If Bayern had had a narrow defeat, Bayern might still be trying to explain it away as an irregularity, and try too much of the same approach against a similar team another time (Dortmund in German Cup Final?). After conceding 4 goals at home and being unable to score in 180 min, in spite of bringing on just about every available striker and midfielder, Bayern are forced to reconsider both (a) the tactics against such teams and (b) the comparative quality of some players when they meet opponents at the highest level. The Dortmund final should be an interesting study, and so will Bayern’s activity in the transfer market this summer. I think last night’s game could have changed Rummenigge’s mind from buying a good central defender to buying a world class central defender this summer.
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Re: [2014-04-29] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:27 pm

Badger wrote:I feel that it is not appropriate to say too soon that there was anything good about Bayern’s result last night; it could come across as a fan in denial. However, there is one thing that I am now grateful for. I’m glad it was a huge defeat rather than a small one. If Bayern had had a narrow defeat, Bayern might still be trying to explain it away as an irregularity, and try too much of the same approach against a similar team another time (Dortmund in German Cup Final?). After conceding 4 goals at home and being unable to score in 180 min, in spite of bringing on just about every available striker and midfielder, Bayern are forced to reconsider both (a) the tactics against such teams and (b) the comparative quality of some players when they meet opponents at the highest level. The Dortmund final should be an interesting study, and so will Bayern’s activity in the transfer market this summer. I think last night’s game could have changed Rummenigge’s mind from buying a good central defender to buying a world class central defender this summer.

Exactly, and in a narrow loss I'd probably be complaining a lot. Losing by such a heavy margin, while hurtful, has helped me accept the result. I usually hate it when we lose because often we are the better team in the pitch and do not deserve it. That is not the case for this tie. They won fair and square and I respect that.
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Re: [2014-04-29] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby München Minded » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:06 pm

Obviously last night was the culmination of a downhill slide -- whether it be because of mental issues with the team, Pep's possession obsession, bad luck, Ribéry...who knows. But one thing is for certain, we lost in several games ago after winning the BuLi in record time. It's obvious complacency is an issue, regardless of the formation we played yesterday. Also players like Ribéry are struggling due to some mental virus, probably the desire to repeat last season and win it all.

I actually thought it was a clever tactic or trick to "downgrade" our performances to fool other teams into thinking Bayern wasn't that great as before, and then come out in the CL games and kick ass, like some kind of mind games Pep was using to play us as underdogs. but now I believe we really did slide and it cost us. It was an entire team effort, and everyone in the team (including the coach) cost us.

We deserved what we got as a wake up call, as we didn't get that wake up call a few weeks back like we should have. The team was in a mental downturn, and the coach failed to change that, and relied solely on individual quality to try and get us through games. Yet where was Ribéry's quality of late? or other players? Effort was the thing Pep tried to focus on, and certain players like Robben gave it more than others. But I do agree with several of you that we should have started cautious and play Martinez/Schweini in the double 6 -- that combo worked amazing with the Boateng/Dante pairing last season. Lahm and Alaba completed an amazing defensive effort. That's where Heynckes was as a coach, build a team from back, and create a solid defensive foundation, and not rely on possession or out scoring opponents. Yet Heynckes approach allowed for us to attack more from the build up from defense, at pace, and still outscore opponents.

I like Pep, he is a good coach in many respects, but I don't want him to ruin things by acting like his mentor LvG. Stubborness doesn't win out. A single idea, and enhancing on that idea to perfection, is both a good thing and a curse. Heynckes showed that by flexibility in play, and building on a solid defensive platform are what work. Dortmund and Real build on the defensive platform to be successful at counter-attacking, you have to weather any attacking storm to be able to counter, but also have fast attacking players. We essentially had that last season. And missing players like Thiago for Pep's system really hurt -- it's why Pep was desperate to get Thiago in the first place, but he failed to account for injury to that player (I assume he thought Thiago was too young to have so many injuries). Possession is a good idea, along with a lot of other ideas like defending, and taking chances, and not just passing till our opponents drop from running around or from boredom.

We were our own worst enemy yesterday, and against a team like Real who had a huge desire to finally get into a CL final, while Bayern just figured we had a right to be in the final and expected Pep to wave a magic wand or for luck to hold, instead of hard work. I hope our lesson is learned by the time we play the next best counter-attacking team in football in our last final of the season in the German Cup.

By the way, A lot of you have really great comments, and I respect your ideas.
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Re: [2014-04-29] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby AdepT » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:13 pm

tflags wrote:I'd say we put it to a vote:

A. Pep goes, NOW DAMMIT!
B. Pep stays, Don Draper style: No drinking, adultering (I just made that word up) or smoking while at the office (that's 1960s talk for tiki-taka)
C. Pep stays, gets the benefit of the doubt, we blame Nerlinger again.
D. Pep rules, we reinforce, hope the WC doesn't kill anyone, we do a 2013 on steroids. Send Ribéry on a soul searching trip while at it.

I'd go with E. Pep stays, we blame Pep and to some extent the players.

Remember what Xavi said when they lost against us; that they still had the possession. Pep is like that and may be it's a wish that'll never be fulfilled but I'd like to realise that you can keep the ball for 90mins but you can't score against many teams. He has to change his plan for defensive teams; though I am not sure he would. He's quite the stubborn guy. It does seem that way.
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Re: [2014-04-29] Bayern Munich vs Real Madrid

Postby Jorge » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:34 pm

scaPEPgoat wrote: And although it did not end up mattering, How does UEFA assign a Portuguese ref for this game? Finals in Lisbon? CR7?


Because at the end it did not matter.
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