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[2016-10-19] Bayern Munich vs PSV Eindhoven

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:45 pm

Bayern Munich will win
8
62%
It will end in a draw
2
15%
PSV Eindhoven will win
3
23%
 
Total votes : 13

Re: [2016-10-19] Bayern Munich vs PSV Eindhoven

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:06 pm

I've always said Pep did lahm a favor playing him as a midfielder.

Lahm definitely knew he couldn't be the same fullback he was in his peak and I bet that is the reason why he retired from Germany early. That being said, I don't know if Kimmich is an upgrade as a RB compared to 2016 Lahm.
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Re: [2016-10-19] Bayern Munich vs PSV Eindhoven

Postby MUTU » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:10 pm

MoFattal wrote:Lahm has been the biggest surprise for me this season. His decline has been much accelerated than the previous years. I though with his return to RB, he could somehow get back on track but the opposite is happening. He offers very little going forward, and his defense has been very suspect against dribblers and quick players. He just looks to "contain" the opposing player rather than go for the tackle as he used to do before, and somehow you don't find him inside the box covering the right side. He's basically lost in midfield, and I think the past three years has shifted his footballing focus towards playing there. It would take a huge daring call to bench Lahm, and I don't think Carlo or anyone else would be able to do that, but something must be done. HALB is nowhere as good as it is supposed to be, and surprisingly Lahm is weakest link.

Yes, Lahm is kinda losing that legendary status he had. Unless his form improves, I wouldn't mind him resigning at the end of this season. I want to remember his prime, the prime of the greatest fullback that ever graced the beautiful game. Kimmich is doing his utmost to retain that midfield spot but with the injury situation easing, the only thing currently keeping Lahm in the starting XI is his reputation. I pray for the old Lahm to come back!
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Re: [2016-10-19] Bayern Munich vs PSV Eindhoven

Postby JANCKER » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:47 pm

8 Bayern fans were injured last night after PSV fans threw pyros into the Bayern block [AZ]
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Re: [2016-10-19] Bayern Munich vs PSV Eindhoven

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:26 pm

I am remembering of two footballing greats who changed position when they grew older.
Maldini went CB instead of LB while Javier Zanetti CM from RM.
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: [2016-10-19] Bayern Munich vs PSV Eindhoven

Postby Coman » Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:07 pm

zozon wrote:
2. Thiago is AWESOME. Easily the best creative midfielder Bayern had since forever. It's time to cut the slack for him and stop calling him the Pep pet, he has proven many times before that he is great + has Bayern in his heart.

Coman wrote:HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

When he will create nothing against Juve, Atletico or Barcelona soon it will be the same story over and over hahaha

I can stop laughing.

Deluded fan. More Thiago fanboyz than Bayern fan obviously.

zozon wrote:
Can somebody warn this troll or something? @mutu @anybodywhoisadmin ???
Is this forum like this now, you can't post a personal opinion post game without being called as a deluded fan or a Thiago fanboy?

I know this a Bayern forum who tends to post a realistic view of Bayern, but enough is enough. Enough with the troll bashing or personal hate for some BAYERN players. It's pathetic to read, it ruins the whole thread. Ban them from a thread, warn them or something, this is getting ridiculous. This is not a Goal.com comment section FFS

Or let me deal with the trolls in my own way without a repercussion for me...

MUTU wrote:Yesterday, I gave the lowest Voopl rating of 5/10 to Thiago, a (dis)honour shared with Xabi Alonso and Philipp Lahm. I'm sitting here right now and pondering about last night's match through the suffering of a mega tension headache coupled with heartburn. And I'm trying to remember what Thiago did. I can only remember two things: his superb assist to Robben (truly world class) and myself wondering why he's so absent. I don't know, perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps he distributes the ball so fast that I miss him getting the ball whilst I'm batting my eyelids.

In fact, I wonder if someone aggregates statistics of how long players spend with the ball in their possession on an individual basis, and compare that to the other players.

I don't know. Call me a hater. Call me blind. Call me an idiot. But whatever you call me, I still can't understand why people think he played well, because, in my eyes, assist aside, he was the poorest Bayern player on the pitch. I remember seeing everyone else more in the thick of action than Thiago, but again it could have been my sickness.

Then, I went back to the chat logs. I searched for the word "Thiago" and found nothing but negative comments on his performance. One assist later (which cost me 1 point in the predictions game, dammit!) and everyone else seems to have ditched those feelings.

We've long talked about Thiago's consistency, or rather the lack thereof, but I always felt it was being taken from a game to game basis not a minute-by-minute run. So if were to give 90 ratings to Thiago, one per minute, there'd be one with a 10/10 and then there'd be the rest which would be quite lower. I stand by my vote of 5/10, and probably this will bring a lot of hate.


What a feeling :!:

You are not blind, hater or idiot MUTU. You're just a true Bayern fan with a realistic point of view on our player.

8)
Last edited by Coman on Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:52 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Bayern 3-3-3-1 build-up under Heynckes :
Neuer - Boateng Hummels Thiago - Kimmich Vidal Alaba - Robben Müller James - Lewandowski
Neuer- Boateng Vidal Hummels- Kimmich Martinez Alaba- Robben James Ribéry- Lewandowski
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Re: [2016-10-19] Bayern Munich vs PSV Eindhoven

Postby Coman » Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:09 pm

BTW : about we will see what Lahm will do in big games.

I don't see, even in his average form, a better RB than him except Carvajal 24 yo.

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Bayern 3-3-3-1 build-up under Heynckes :
Neuer - Boateng Hummels Thiago - Kimmich Vidal Alaba - Robben Müller James - Lewandowski
Neuer- Boateng Vidal Hummels- Kimmich Martinez Alaba- Robben James Ribéry- Lewandowski
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Re: [2016-10-19] Bayern Munich vs PSV Eindhoven

Postby Pelin » Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:25 pm

The problem is we don't have space for Lahm in midfield and the reality is Pep wasted him at CM. Wasting Lahm at CM and playing Rafinha at RB is one of the biggest football crimes in the last decade.
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Re: [2016-10-19] Bayern Munich vs PSV Eindhoven

Postby tflags » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:44 am

MUTU wrote:I don't know. Call me a hater. Call me blind. Call me an idiot. But whatever you call me, I still can't understand why people think he played well, because, in my eyes, assist aside, he was the poorest Bayern player on the pitch. I remember seeing everyone else more in the thick of action than Thiago, but again it could have been my sickness.


It is quite amazing how some people just walk into games only to see two different things. I thought he had a very good game yesterday all things considered. Problem is, the mindset by some is simply polarizing. Just look at MUTU's comment, 'other than the assist, he sucked.'

He had a very good pass and combos with Alaba (which should have ended in goal) and Robben in the FH and that nice low ball to Lewan which, again, should have ended in goal. Some very nice tackles on the second half as well. It was a very good performance; again, all things considered.

Somehow players only get praised if the team scores; the chance creation largely overlooked. MUTU, did you actually miss that Lewandowski pass on the second half or where you looking someplace else?

I read most of the comments here before watching the game and I'm simply concluding people here either like him or they don't, and it simply doesn't have anything to do with his performances. By game's end, I was thinking to myself why were people bitching on the forum until the commentator said, to the other's question, 'Robben superb game, then Muller and most of all Thiago.'

And that's ok. None called this forum objective. It never has been now, has it? I mean, it would take a fair admin to do that. We simply don't have one here. :P
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Re: [2016-10-19] Bayern Munich vs PSV Eindhoven

Postby MUTU » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:52 am

tflags wrote:
MUTU wrote:I don't know. Call me a hater. Call me blind. Call me an idiot. But whatever you call me, I still can't understand why people think he played well, because, in my eyes, assist aside, he was the poorest Bayern player on the pitch. I remember seeing everyone else more in the thick of action than Thiago, but again it could have been my sickness.


It is quite amazing how some people just walk into games only to see two different things. I thought he had a very good game yesterday all things considered. Problem is, the mindset by some is simply polarizing. Just look at MUTU's comment, 'other than the assist, he sucked.'

He had a very good pass and combos with Alaba (which should have ended in goal) and Robben in the FH and that nice low ball to Lewan which, again, should have ended in goal. Some very nice tackles on the second half as well. It was a very good performance; again, all things considered.

Somehow players only get praised if the team scores; the chance creation largely overlooked. MUTU, did you actually miss that Lewandowski pass on the second half or where you looking someplace else?

I read most of the comments here before watching the game and I'm simply concluding people here either like him or they don't, and it simply doesn't have anything to do with his performances.

And that's ok. None called this forum objective. It never has been now, has it? I mean, it would take a fair admin to do that. We simply don't have one here. :P

Wow, cheap shots at the admin(s). Simply because someone doesn't share your opinion you accuse them of promoting non-objectiveness when it is exactly posts like this which are doing so.

I'm sorry if Thiago isn't my favourite player which automatically means I don't look attentively and record every pass/movement he does so I can discuss/argue about it later, something which admittedly I used to do with Gomez during the Gomez wars. For me he didn't stand out. No, I don't remember any pass to Lewandowski. I remember Lewandowski missing a couple of half-chances but have no idea who gave him the ball. Probably because they were only that, half-chances. If it was a great chance or a goal, I would put a bigger effort at taking notice of who made the pass and who started the action, unless of course it's a great delivery, something which Thiago did in previous matches, and which Boateng did last match.

Unfortunately, I lack a photographic memory to remember every single moment in a match. Or, perhaps, I simply expected more from Thiago. And I think you will agree that he's had much better matches this season.
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Re: [2016-10-19] Bayern Munich vs PSV Eindhoven

Postby ottackon » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:03 pm

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Re: [2016-10-19] Bayern Munich vs PSV Eindhoven

Postby tflags » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:12 pm

The game vs PSV left a bittersweet taste for a change. After all, the last games where all only bitter; no sweets. Carletto's 'I'll follow Pep's plan' idea of the team has left this Titanic left floating by patching the holes up front and navigating through a maze of icebergs - for the time being.

The patcher? Robben. His inclusion on the team has brought - to quote someone from the forum - a breath of freshness on the final third that has meant not as a Muller/Lewan replacement but rather inspiration. The master has given the apprentices a new canvas. A FREE drawing canvas. Lewan went south, Lewan went left, Lewan crossed for crying out loud. Lewan, where have you gone? Oh, before I forget, Raidmuller - all puns intended - is back too.

Midfield, however, is a disaster. Of Trumptonian proportions. For some reason Kimmich and Alonso think they are 9 and 10 (or 8 ) respectively and that brings a whole lot of issues on counters. I don't like a 4-3-3 where the middle 3 thing we are playing 4-1-5. You leave either Alonso or Thiago as the holding 1, and that is a recipe for disaster.

The team is left, painful to say, heavily unbalanced. The new found freedom of attacking options is like watching Guardiola's game on Vicodin while fast forwarding. Watching the team being counter attacked is like watching a US presidential debate. You can barely keep from closing your eyes before asking if you have the microphone again.

By the end of the night you are left wondering if this team will get places by simply scoring more than the opposition; a far cry from Heynckes second term (second half to be precise) - largely considered the team's finest measurable season ever.

But hell, Vidal is getting better. And Martinez seems to be healthy and midfielding again. Who knows, maybe he will once again destroy the oposition's middle third that was the ultimate patch into that a perfect triple wining team of 2013.
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Re: [2016-10-19] Bayern Munich vs PSV Eindhoven

Postby tflags » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:18 pm

MUTU wrote:Unfortunately, I lack a photographic memory to remember every single moment in a match.


So if I get this correctly, you don't remember his passes ('cause that is something that, y'know, he should be doing) but you do remember he was the lowest performer? That's interesting.
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Re: [2016-10-19] Bayern Munich vs PSV Eindhoven

Postby MUTU » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:53 pm

tflags wrote:
MUTU wrote:Unfortunately, I lack a photographic memory to remember every single moment in a match.


So if I get this correctly, you don't remember his passes ('cause that is something that, y'know, he should be doing) but you do remember he was the lowest performer? That's interesting.

And how else would you rate the players?

I think the logical way, and the way I use is to try and remember each individual players' actions, good or bad, and then give a rating to the player. I didn't want to say it before, but now that you pushed me... during the chat, someone mentioned Thiago (and in a negative sense) and for a millisecond there I thought "Thiago? He's playing?" and then remembered he is. Hence why I gave him that low rating. If I don't think a midfielder is constantly in the thick of action, then I won't give him a high rating. That's why I asked whether there are stats on ball possession per player, to see if I am mistaken or not, but I really don't think he saw as much of the ball as was expected for his position and relative to his recent performances.
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Re: [2016-10-19] Bayern Munich vs PSV Eindhoven

Postby tflags » Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:36 pm

Guys, discussing one player is boring. Going on about who you like or don't is diminishing, uninspiring and off topic. Game in and out we are blaming players for defensive issues and overlooking offensive ones. Players are showing up in new territory under new conditions: Full backs are wing backs; midfielders are false 11s (Kimmich) and forward playmakers (Alonso) and keepers are CBs.

I don't like (contrary to my signature) Kimmich scoring in the box. I rather have him tackling (he didn't have a single one) than scoring. It is just a matter of preference. So anyhow I'll stop rambling.

How would I rate players? By doing what they should be doing. MUTU says he 'forgot' Thiago was playing. That's fine. Whoscored, for example, didn't. (I would love to use another source but heck, just giving ESPN's 2.5 rating - the second best - just because 'he assisted Robben' is a little too simple istn't it?) As a matter of fact the Thiago crusade takes us again to whoscored, giving Thiago, again, a 8.5 rating - the second best for both teams on the night after Robben (9.1). This comes as recognition for the second most tackles, the most dribbles, the most passes in the last third and the most chance creations. Assists didn't hurt either.

And yet a player who is CONSISTENTLY getting rave reviews by expert sites and commentators game in and out, creating game saving chances gets called to be sold, weak, invinsible or else.

And I think that's fine. You can't expect all to vote red, blue or green. But when a admin does it begs the question as to who's moderating, and what can you expect from a site where the admin is thinking about Gomez ( :P from Russia, with love).

Stop bithching (@Coman). Dude's taking care of business, we just need a destroyer to get things going.
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Re: [2016-10-19] Bayern Munich vs PSV Eindhoven

Postby pyrasur » Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:05 pm

If I could only speak so eloquently.
而剑法的最高境界,则是手中无剑,心中也无剑,是以大胸怀,包容一切。那便是不杀,便是和平。-英雄
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