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[2008-09-30] Bayern Munich vs Lyon

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue Sep 30, 2008 7:04 pm

Bayern Munich will win
5
29%
It will end in a draw
7
41%
Lyon will win
5
29%
 
Total votes : 17

Re: [2008-09-30] Bayern Munich vs Lyon

Postby Hawkeye » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:58 am

I think Bayern showed they can match it with the best, and that the results against Bremen and Hanover were out of the ordinary. We had the upper hand in terms of possession, shots, corners, pretty much everything. The own goal is a little bit irksome, but things like that happen in football. If only Demi didn't score for them, and if the Klose penalty was awarded, I think we would have had quite the successful match, it just goes to show the fine margins in football.

Klinsi's lack of substitutions makes me wonder though, Im sure theres a good reason why he didnt make more substitutions...at least I hope there is. All I can say is that if Bayern can reproduce and sustain the form they showed in the second half of this match during further matches in the bundesliga, I think we'll do quite well once again.
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Re: [2008-09-30] Bayern Munich vs Lyon

Postby MrLinky » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:11 am

My man of the match was Lucio for sure , amazing performance by him , just like every year he is able to play at his best
when it matters , Breno was very good too , showed why we paid 12 million for him , he's a huge talent .
I also liked Ze , he was pretty much everywhere in midfield , sliding into tackles , winning the ball , and opening up play .
Oddo was not bad either , his crosses just weren't as precise last night , still a good performance from him , applied constant
pressure from the right .
I dont agree with most of you on Lahm though , without a doubt he was the best in the 1st half but in the 2nd one he showed some
unusual insecurities , like the one header he wanted to get back to Rense but it fell too short and Benzema had a great chance which he
couldnt use fortunately .
Schweini showing his big problem, the lack of consistency , again the old lethargic Schweini , Im starting to believe this guy just isnt feeling comfortable
as a RM , he's the #8 type of midfielder , he doesnt have the pace for a RM .
The strikers were moving pretty good but didnt have the bit of luck required , and Ribery starting to do what we all love him for . :)
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Re: [2008-09-30] Bayern Munich vs Lyon

Postby MUTU » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:48 am

walter wrote:http://www.bundesligatalk.com/the-sync-bayern-1-1-lyon/107

This article makes some interesting points about Bayern tactics (or the lack of) on the game.


Most of what is said is rubbish. You know that journalists aren't very familiar with Bayern matches and players when they keep writing Demichelis as DiMichelis and they suggested that we were trying to hold on for a draw... knowing Bayern, they were really trying to win the match. Trying to hold on for a draw would have seen Bayern defend in numbers.
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Re: [2008-09-30] Bayern Munich vs Lyon

Postby MrLinky » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:36 am

MUTU wrote:
walter wrote:http://www.bundesligatalk.com/the-sync-bayern-1-1-lyon/107

This article makes some interesting points about Bayern tactics (or the lack of) on the game.


Most of what is said is rubbish. You know that journalists aren't very familiar with Bayern matches and players when they keep writing Demichelis as DiMichelis and they suggested that we were trying to hold on for a draw... knowing Bayern, they were really trying to win the match. Trying to hold on for a draw would have seen Bayern defend in numbers.



Totally agree , interesting but stupid points as well . :wink:
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Re: [2008-09-30] Bayern Munich vs Lyon

Postby thulkazal » Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:38 am

anyway do u think it could be offside when lyon scored ?

for me micho was one of better in team doesnt metter he maded own goal
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Re: [2008-09-30] Bayern Munich vs Lyon

Postby Jorge » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:48 pm

Raphael Sanzio wrote:And Klinsmann should sign the players he wants in the winter break (Arshavin and Gattusso [-o< ) Hoeness is a cheap rat! Not one penny in the summer transfer! I hope he changes his mind or they change him! [-o< [-o<


Here you go again.

1. Gattusso decided to stay at Milan and we need to get over it. he is not the only one, there are plenty of World Class Mids out there and we need to be after one of them, not the current Gattusso but the next Gattusso, that is why we pay scouts for. Why do we need him?
2. Why Arshavin? Besides his performance in EURO 2008 what else has he done to deserve all the credit he gets? UEFA Cup last season with Zenit or the Russia league the previous season? In the UEFA Cup he was not that superb player that carried the team over his shoulder because Zenit relied on teamwork in first place and even others offered more contributions. This year Zenit (with his star Arshavin included) is struggling pretty bad and the season is about to end. How can we be sure that Arshavin can shine in the BL if he is average most of the times against teams named Rubin Kazan or Amkar Perm? Why are we going to disburse 20 million dollars for a guy who during EURO 2008 called the attention of Arsene Wenger and Jose Mourinho but after they reviewed some full match tapes from the Russian League changed their minds and both questioned whether he had the maturity to play in a top league? And Arshavin is 27 years old!

If Bayerns buys Arshavin most likely it will be disaster. I heard from some Russian guys who play in my league that after EURO 2008 Arshavin let the superstar thing go over to his head and he has gained a bad reputation and gets cautioned all the time (I take it with a grain of salt because they are CSKA fans but I know he has been suspended several times). I saw him yesterday against Real Madrid is he was average for most of the game, 2 or 3 good runs down the left including the cross that produced a goal but no signs of superstar status.
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Re: [2008-09-30] Bayern Munich vs Lyon

Postby FCBinNYC » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:12 pm

This game really got me thinking...I'm ok with the result given how we've been playing usually, but a few things are bothering me. First, what is up with our defensive mentality? It seems like all the players are so afraid of overcommitting that as a result they're perpetually undercommitting. This is strange to me since I've always felt that one of Bayern's traditional strengths was their ability to put there opponents under an insane amount of pressure, force them to make mistakes, then take advantage. What ever happened to good old man-marking? I feel like if we would just step up the defensive pressure, we would automatically gain better counterattacking opportunities, which is crucial. Of course, none of that is happening since our defenders are giving their opponents so much space to work with. That goes for the strikers too, last season I thought they played deeper and contributed to the build-up play more. Now, they're just isolated up there and as a result they're not getting any action, and by action I mean goals.

Speaking of goals, is target practice still a part of the daily routine at Bayern? These are players that know how to score, but they just seem off the pace entirely. Toni had at least one chance that a few months ago there's no doubt in my mind he would've scored; yesterday, he didn't even manage a shot. What gives?

Breno looked pretty good again, Ribery is getting there, Ze was dependable as usual. Not so sure about Micho in midfield. We know he can do it, but yesterday he didn't look comfortable. He looked fine defending, but going forward and especially providing support he was nowhere to be found. I would've taken him out for Ottl at some point, we could've stayed defensively solid but had another man going forward that way. I also would've brought on Poldi for Miro or Toni, I don't understand with all this talent on the bench why we're not making 2-3 subs a game. If everyone is having the game of their lives, sure, don't make any changes. But the second half yesterday was BEGGING for Poldi's influence on it, and he was nowhere to be found. Frustrating. These sort of things make me question Klinsmann more than losing 1-0 to Hannover.

At least the team seems to trust him, though. The best part of the game yesterday was when they all ran over to celebrate with him on the sideline after Ze's goal. That gave me some hope.
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Re: [2008-09-30] Bayern Munich vs Lyon

Postby reiniksrobis » Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:04 pm

Jorge wrote:
Raphael Sanzio wrote:And Klinsmann should sign the players he wants in the winter break (Arshavin and Gattusso [-o< ) Hoeness is a cheap rat! Not one penny in the summer transfer! I hope he changes his mind or they change him! [-o< [-o<


Here you go again.

1. Gattusso decided to stay at Milan and we need to get over it. he is not the only one, there are plenty of World Class Mids out there and we need to be after one of them, not the current Gattusso but the next Gattusso, that is why we pay scouts for. Why do we need him?
2. Why Arshavin? Besides his performance in EURO 2008 what else has he done to deserve all the credit he gets? UEFA Cup last season with Zenit or the Russia league the previous season? In the UEFA Cup he was not that superb player that carried the team over his shoulder because Zenit relied on teamwork in first place and even others offered more contributions. This year Zenit (with his star Arshavin included) is struggling pretty bad and the season is about to end. How can we be sure that Arshavin can shine in the BL if he is average most of the times against teams named Rubin Kazan or Amkar Perm? Why are we going to disburse 20 million dollars for a guy who during EURO 2008 called the attention of Arsene Wenger and Jose Mourinho but after they reviewed some full match tapes from the Russian League changed their minds and both questioned whether he had the maturity to play in a top league? And Arshavin is 27 years old!

If Bayerns buys Arshavin most likely it will be disaster. I heard from some Russian guys who play in my league that after EURO 2008 Arshavin let the superstar thing go over to his head and he has gained a bad reputation and gets cautioned all the time (I take it with a grain of salt because they are CSKA fans but I know he has been suspended several times). I saw him yesterday against Real Madrid is he was average for most of the game, 2 or 3 good runs down the left including the cross that produced a goal but no signs of superstar status.

1. Yes, De Rossi would be great
2. Agree, Arshavin is not that good, as everyone thinks. I watch 25+ Russian PL games per season and HE IS NOT 20m worth!!! Just like Pogrebnyak. Brazil International and CSKA striker, Wagner Love is better. Karadeniz from Rubin is great. Wagner Love will cost 10+ millions, but he is worth it. Karadeniz will cost under 10 million. They are the best players in Russia. Also, Zenit wingback, Alexander Anyukov is great. Have you seen JO from Man.City? He, Wagner Love and Daniel Carvalho was Brazilian connection in CSKA, when they played really good. Now, Jo are gone, but Love is still the TOP scorer in RPL! HE IS GOOD PLAYER!!
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Re: [2008-09-30] Bayern Munich vs Lyon

Postby walter » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:06 pm

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=891064

Sounds like good news for those of us who want MVB stripped of the Captain's armband. However, wasn't there a riff between HItzfeld an DeMichelis about the latter not wanting to play CDM because it would compromise his chances of playing for the Argentine national team?
I hope this doesn't create tensions in the team...
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Re: [2008-09-30] Bayern Munich vs Lyon

Postby Jorge » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:58 pm

walter wrote:http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=891064

Sounds like good news for those of us who want MVB stripped of the Captain's armband. However, wasn't there a riff between HItzfeld an DeMichelis about the latter not wanting to play CDM because it would compromise his chances of playing for the Argentine national team?
I hope this doesn't create tensions in the team...


Hitzfeld and DeMichelis had a riff indeed about this issue, but Bayern did not absolutely needed him as CDM at that time; now it is imperative that we find somebody reliable and it has to be right away. I can not imagine for a minute that Micho will put his personal interests above his club's interests as his salary comes from the club, playing for the NT is a bonus and he is good enough that he will be picked for his country even if he plays a different position at club level. On the other hand he might move back to CD if we sign a good CDM when we get rid off Van Bommel in January (we will)

My only concern is the time it will take for Micho to be fully efficient, somebody here mentioned how he was basically walking in front of the defense in the last part of the 2nd half instead of all over the place as it is required for a CDM, even when this was his position in the past he is so used to CD that somehow he needs to re-adapt, it is a position where you have to change the way you budget your energy throughout the 90 minutes as you run almost twice what you do as CD and you can get burned out quicker but in a matter of a couple of weeks of training and playing I am sure Micho will pick it up again, meanwhile Ottl can assist playing along him in some games or coming up as a sub. Regardless we need to keep Ottl going in his development as CDM.

IMO, Micho is not the final solution but it is a promising one before January. In january we need to sell Van Bommel (if somebody wants him) and one other midfielder and then buy a CDM. I can see Sosa exiting as I will not touch Schweini, Kroos or Altintop. Borowski just got signed.
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Re: [2008-09-30] Bayern Munich vs Lyon

Postby MrLinky » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:30 pm

Jorge wrote:
Hitzfeld and DeMichelis had a riff indeed about this issue, but Bayern did not absolutely needed him as CDM at that time;



How come we didnt need him last year as a DM but we do need him this year with the exact same squad (except TimBo and Butt) ?
Micho is a world class CB and thats where he should stay .
The solution is buying a world class DM , selling van Buyten , getting Hummels back from Dortmund who's been showing great performances
and building up the CB with Lucio/Micho and Hummels/Breno as back-up but also involve them into a rotation policy so they can get
some valuable playing time to develop and not warm the bench like Kroos is . :)
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Re: [2008-09-30] Bayern Munich vs Lyon

Postby Jorge » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:56 pm

MrLinky wrote:
Jorge wrote:
Hitzfeld and DeMichelis had a riff indeed about this issue, but Bayern did not absolutely needed him as CDM at that time;



How come we didnt need him last year as a DM but we do need him this year with the exact same squad (except TimBo and Butt) ?


We did not need a CDM last year because:

1. Mark Van Bommel was playing better,
2. We were not in the middle of the table after 6 games,
3. We were not playing 3-5-2 where a CDM has more responsabilities than in a 4-4-2,
4. We were not spanked by Werder Bremen in our own Stadium


MrLinky wrote: Micho is a world class CB and thats where he should stay .


I fully agree

MrLinky wrote: The solution is buying a world class DM , selling van Buyten , getting Hummels back from Dortmund who's been showing great performances
and building up the CB with Lucio/Micho and Hummels/Breno as back-up but also involve them into a rotation policy so they can get
some valuable playing time to develop and not warm the bench like Kroos is . :)


Nice idea, but it is not January: it is October 1st and we have a big problem to fix with what we have I can not find anyone in the whole squad better prepared to fill the gap left by MVB's lack of performance better than Micho.

BTW, I also agree that Van Buyten should follow Van Bommel and Sosa through the exit door.
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Re: [2008-09-30] Bayern Munich vs Lyon

Postby MaCk0y » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:29 pm

Yeah I agree with Mr Linky. Demichelis is a world class CB. I also agree Van Buyten should be sold. I read somewhere he is linked with Tottenham. I think that nobody wants MVB so he will seek out his contract at the end of the season and Bayern celebrate with a massive night party with drinks on da house! :lol:
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Re: [2008-09-30] Bayern Munich vs Lyon

Postby MrLinky » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:51 am

Jorge wrote:
We were not playing 3-5-2 where a CDM has more responsabilities than in a 4-4-2



Isn't that the main source for all the problems ?
Klinsi's decision to play 3-5-2 with MVB as the only DM was a terrible one , if we would have played the 4-4-2 as it was last year things
would look better for us in the BL table and we wouldnt need to field Micho as DM which I still believe we dont if we stick to
the good old 4-4-2 with 2 CDM .
Last edited by MrLinky on Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [2008-09-30] Bayern Munich vs Lyon

Postby Jorge » Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:07 pm

MrLinky wrote:
Jorge wrote:
We were not playing 3-5-2 where a CDM has more responsabilities than in a 4-4-2



Isn't that the main source for all the problems ?
Klinsi's decision to play 3-5-2 with MVB as the only DM was a terrible one , if we would have played the 4-4-2 as it was last year things
would looke better for us in the BL table and we wouldnt need to field Micho as DM which I still believe we dont if we stick to
the good old 4-4-2 with 2 CDM .


I agree with you, if you do not have what it takes for a 3-5-2 don't use it, but on the other hand Klinsmann structured the whole team around a 3-5-2 in first place not happy with the 4-4-2 when he used it in pre-season, that is the reason why he got rid of Marcel Jansen and brought in Oddo (more offensive flare on that wing) and that is the reason why he made Van Bommel captain, he planned a whole system around MVB (he was daydreaming). Can we go back to a 4-4-2 right now? As I said before I have seen Oddo so far struggling with speed to cover defensively as a right back and with Lell out I am not 100% sure we will be OK. Right we lose Demichelis in CD and gain a CDM that might be still a question mark, but Breno has been OK covering on the back so far.

I agree, the solution is to have a real CDM and send Micho back to his position but we have an emergency right now, the toher option is Ottl in CDM, Klinsmann might do that in some games or part of games letting Micho play as CD.
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