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[2016-05-03] Bayern Munich vs Atlético

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue May 03, 2016 7:45 pm

Bayern will go through to the final after 90 minutes
28
55%
Bayern will go through to the final after extra time
8
16%
Bayern will go through to the final on penalties
2
4%
Atlético will go through to the final on penalties
0
No votes
Atlético will go through to the final after extra time
0
No votes
Atlético will go through to the final after 90 minutes
13
25%
 
Total votes : 51

Re: [2016-05-03] Bayern Munich vs Atlético

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed May 04, 2016 6:41 pm

bastos80 wrote:
Bentonomo wrote:
JANCKER wrote:[quote="Bentonomo"]Simeone >>> Guardiola


It's stupid to try and play attractive football when you know that you're gonna lose that way... Simeone isn't stupid.


Of course he isn't. Guardiola would never be as succesful as simeome is with that squad and budget.



Talking about budget is funny when you look compare Atletico with Bayern and notice that they spend about as much as we do...
Simeone is at a club that willingly tries to fulfil every wish of him and therefore he build a team that is perfectly fitting HIS idea of football.
Would he be as succesful at our club with our players? I don't think so, because our squad is made to have the ball, not to sit back and play like Atletico.
If we had a board that fullfilled Guardiola's every wish, who knows how many CL titles we'd have by now. But that's not the case so we'll never know.
This is hardly a Guardiola team we're having right now.[/quote]
Ummmm I don't agree man. Bayern was as close to a Guardiola team as it got without spending 100m on single players. Maybe our frontline was not to his taste, but MF, defense and keeper were perfect for him.

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Re: [2016-05-03] Bayern Munich vs Atlético

Postby FCB general » Wed May 04, 2016 7:07 pm

JANCKER wrote:
Bentonomo wrote:Simeone >>> Guardiola


It's stupid to try and play attractive football when you know that you're gonna lose that way... Simeone isn't stupid.

I guess Atletico were awesome back in the late 2012 when they destroyed Chelsea in European Super Cup with 4 goals.

But there's a giant difference between that Atletico and this today, even between the one in 2013/2014 season. Maybe if someone would buy them strikers like Falcao and Costa and two midfielders like Arda and Reus, then I'm sure they wouldn't play this kind of football they play right now. :P
They are probably the only 'weaker' opponent who can handle the pervert, rich elite clubs. Now that's something what many clubs around the Europe want to do it as well, but they can't.
Cada loco con su tema.
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Re: [2016-05-03] Bayern Munich vs Atlético

Postby Bentonomo » Wed May 04, 2016 7:19 pm

With the players bayern have we can play whatever we want. Even catenaccio succesfuly.
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Re: [2016-05-03] Bayern Munich vs Atlético

Postby Jorge » Wed May 04, 2016 8:15 pm

bastos80 wrote: This is hardly a Guardiola team we're having right now.


Can you mention the players that Guardiola wouldn't like to have in this Bayern Munich team?
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Re: [2016-05-03] Bayern Munich vs Atlético

Postby FCB 4 EVA » Wed May 04, 2016 8:36 pm

Jorge wrote:
FCB 4 EVA wrote: Winning the Champions league is tough, for any manager, especially one who had to change the whole ethos of the team.


How tough is winning the Champions League in 2016 is relative compared to the past when Bayern did not enjoy today's financial muscle that levels our club to Europe's elite. We won it in the past with less resources but a more pragmatic approach.

The other factor is that in 2016 we do not have in the mix of contenders the big Italian and English clubs anymore, besides from the two Spanish giants we are the only other club with consistency in the last 5 years which gave us an almost clear path to the Semi Finals each season. The Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool, AC Milan and Inter Milan of the 1990's and 2000's are not around anymore.

One question out of curiosity: why do you think that Guardiola "had to change the whole ethos of the team"?


I was refering to the fact he had to change the style of the way the team sets up and plays, its a project that was just starting to show some promise, his biggest failure was failing to fix the CB problem.
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Re: [2016-05-03] Bayern Munich vs Atlético

Postby Jorge » Wed May 04, 2016 8:42 pm

Only an observation: possession football (that with endless passes in the midfield and few attacking bursts) like Guardiola unsuccessfully tried in his first season at Bayern is as boring as the Bilardo style that Simeone plays. Obviously there are fifty shades of colors in between. Guardiola started to abandon his all possession style in his second season and by this season adopted a more direct style where possession was only a component of a more varied style. On the other hand, based on what he has Simeone is 3 steps back compared to Bilardo himself, in a system where 2 lines of 4 are always behind the ball and only 2 floating players are allowed roam this Atletico looks more rigid than the scheme itself asks for, but it makes the team very impenetrable.

I said several times in this 3 years here: Pep's problem was not navigating Bayern through the Bundesliga or the Champions League campaign, his problem always was big games against big teams where he failed repeatedly to the point of suffering embarrassing defeats and that's how I always had the feeling that he was not going to win the CL with Bayern. Guardiola stormed the world of football with his intricate passing style during his first seasons at Barca but overtime other managers learned how to deal with it while Pep refused to evolve and he left Barcelona being defeated by a Chelsea side that looked as poor in resources as this Atletico. Once I realized that he had come to Munich to found Barca II and soon realize the bumpy ride ahead. I was so prepared for this last fiasco that I had no emotions coming into this game or after the game, something that I am experiencing for the first time in many years.

To Pep's little credit: he played the best game of his Bayern years last night, but it was too little too late. The first leg in Madrid without an away goal versus a team so hard to break had already put Bayern uphill.
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Re: [2016-05-03] Bayern Munich vs Atlético

Postby Bentonomo » Wed May 04, 2016 8:48 pm

=D> Well said
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Re: [2016-05-03] Bayern Munich vs Atlético

Postby FCB 4 EVA » Wed May 04, 2016 9:11 pm

The thing with possession football is teams will always find a way to counter it. There are many ways to win football matches, and more so, CL trophies, and Atletico showed that last night, Pep never adjusted enough with how we played that was effective enough. We played the best match last night under Pep, lots of emotion and desire, which is why it hurts so much with the players and fans alike, but, choices like picking Bernat, and not picking Muller in Madrid, cost him ultimately in this tie, fine margins that mean so much.

People will argue for months whether or not he was deemed a "success", if his only remit was to deliver the champions league then he has failed, but, I believe that is too short sighted. If, in fact, he was brought in to take the players to another level individually, then I believe he has succeeded there. You only have to watch some of the development he has made with the likes of Alaba/Martinez/Kimmech, giving them confidence to try new things, he has come in and taught them all. I believe what he's taught them will stay forever, and help Bayern build on this for years to come.
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Re: [2016-05-03] Bayern Munich vs Atlético

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed May 04, 2016 9:28 pm

Jorge wrote:Only an observation: possession football (that with endless passes in the midfield and few attacking bursts) like Guardiola unsuccessfully tried in his first season at Bayern is as boring as the Bilardo style that Simeone plays. Obviously there are fifty shades of colors in between. Guardiola started to abandon his all possession style in his second season and by this season adopted a more direct style where possession was only a component of a more varied style. On the other hand, based on what he has Simeone is 3 steps back compared to Bilardo himself, in a system where 2 lines of 4 are always behind the ball and only 2 floating players are allowed roam this Atletico looks more rigid than the scheme itself asks for, but it makes the team very impenetrable.

I said several times in this 3 years here: Pep's problem was not navigating Bayern through the Bundesliga or the Champions League campaign, his problem always was big games against big teams where he failed repeatedly to the point of suffering embarrassing defeats and that's how I always had the feeling that he was not going to win the CL with Bayern. Guardiola stormed the world of football with his intricate passing style during his first seasons at Barca but overtime other managers learned how to deal with it while Pep refused to evolve and he left Barcelona being defeated by a Chelsea side that looked as poor in resources as this Atletico. Once I realized that he had come to Munich to found Barca II and soon realize the bumpy ride ahead. I was so prepared for this last fiasco that I had no emotions coming into this game or after the game, something that I am experiencing for the first time in many years.

To Pep's little credit: he played the best game of his Bayern years last night, but it was too little too late. The first leg in Madrid without an away goal versus a team so hard to break had already put Bayern uphill.

Jorge you should post more often. Whenever you come around you're always very insightful.

Seeing how well you know your history, I would love to read your thought on what Ancelotti will do with us.

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Re: [2016-05-03] Bayern Munich vs Atlético

Postby JANCKER » Wed May 04, 2016 9:28 pm

Pep made them better players... that's a load of nonsense... we're talking about players that had won everything before he even set foot here as if they were trash before him. He couldn't have found a better team to be in charge... he was 3 times in a row "unlucky" in semis.
Maybe a player that Pep didn't want was Vidal but look at him now.
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Re: [2016-05-03] Bayern Munich vs Atlético

Postby ottackon » Wed May 04, 2016 9:31 pm

JANCKER wrote:Pep made them better players... that's a load of nonsense... we're talking about players that had won everything before he even set foot here as if they were trash before him. He couldn't have found a better team to be in charge... he was 3 times in a row "unlucky" in semis.

These same players say that Pep made them better footballers, but you must know better than them.
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Re: [2016-05-03] Bayern Munich vs Atlético

Postby JANCKER » Wed May 04, 2016 9:33 pm

ottackon wrote:
JANCKER wrote:Pep made them better players... that's a load of nonsense... we're talking about players that had won everything before he even set foot here as if they were trash before him. He couldn't have found a better team to be in charge... he was 3 times in a row "unlucky" in semis.

These same players say that Pep made them better footballers, but you must know better than them.


No, but they'll say that he made them worst... that's a smart thing to do.
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Re: [2016-05-03] Bayern Munich vs Atlético

Postby ottackon » Wed May 04, 2016 9:39 pm

You must be omniscient.
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Re: [2016-05-03] Bayern Munich vs Atlético

Postby JANCKER » Wed May 04, 2016 9:41 pm

ottackon wrote:You must be omniscient.


You don't have to be to know that much... you know what squad he took over... those players were capable of playing everything.
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Re: [2016-05-03] Bayern Munich vs Atlético

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed May 04, 2016 9:43 pm

JANCKER wrote:
ottackon wrote:You must be omniscient.


You don't have to be to know that much... you know what squad he took over... those players were capable of playing everything.


http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... y-10879291

Don't be in denial. Pep screwed up A LOT especially in tactical decisions and management, but he did one thing right and you know it.
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