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[2016-09-28] Atlético vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:45 pm

Atlético Madrid will win
4
25%
It will end in a draw
2
13%
Bayern Munich will win
10
63%
 
Total votes : 16

Re: [2016-09-28] Atlético vs Bayern Munich

Postby Firefox1234 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:04 pm

Jorge wrote:My two cents: Atletico was the better team by far: very organized and as always making a large limonade if you just give them one lemon.

Carlos's lemon was a limping low energy Alonso on the center of the field, it all came down to that. And I am not only talking about the turnover that led to the goal which looked more like a perfectly timed pass to the opponent in the red zone: Alonso was unable to cover the area in front of the backline and Atletico found a lot of room to run through on the break going 1v1 against our centerbacks which ultimately reduced the ability of Lahm and Alaba joining the attacking zone as well and forced Vidal and Thiago to chase the opponents from behind.

It is easy to do Monday Morning Quaterbacking but if this game has to be re-thought all over again Alonso needs to go to the bench and place one fo the two pit bulls that we have on the team as a holding mid: Martinez or Vidal. In that case a 4-1-3-2 formation:
Neuer- Alaba,Hummels, Boa, Lahm - Martinez- Ribs, Vidal, Thiago - Muller, Lewa or Neuer- Alaba,Hummels, Boa, Lahm - Vidal- Ribs, Thiago, Kimmich - Muller, Lewa. Robben still a supersub for the last 20-25 min.
With this 4-1-3-2 formation you keep the holding mid deep at all times just in front of the center backs which allows the fullbacks to operate all the way on the break abandoning the unnecessary possession style and you have more options to break Atletico's compact formation on the back. It was hard to watch Bayern with 10 minutes to go and 0:1 down still rotating the ball 40 yards from goal hoping to break an Atletico deep formation that did not show any hole in the 80 minutes prior to that.
At the end of the day, this is a group stage match where the results overall have more weight than the head to head. The game in Munich will be a completely different story and Carlos has all the resources in place to make adjustments. Let's not forget that in the 2013-14 SF he won 1-0 versus Bayern at Real Madrid in the first leg which many thought was a bad result for his team and a good result for Pep, then came to Munich and trashed us. Pep himself had a game screwed coincidentally by Alonso in Portugal and completely turned around the 2nd leg.

A 442 variation like 4132 would have been perfect! It would allow Muller to play alongside Lewa where he is most effective while still keeping our wide players happy but it would mean dropping one of our midfielders but since it would be Alonso that's not an issue.
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Re: [2016-09-28] Atlético vs Bayern Munich

Postby JANCKER » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:06 pm

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Re: [2016-09-28] Atlético vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCB general » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:34 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:A 442 variation like 4132 would have been perfect! It would allow Muller to play alongside Lewa where he is most effective while still keeping our wide players happy but it would mean dropping one of our midfielders but since it would be Alonso that's not an issue.



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Re: [2016-09-28] Atlético vs Bayern Munich

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:50 pm

I posted something similar in the Hummels thread. I agree that it is the best solution as FF said to accomodate Muller and our Wingers

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Re: [2016-09-28] Atlético vs Bayern Munich

Postby PunkCapitalist » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:55 pm

FCB general wrote:
Firefox1234 wrote:A 442 variation like 4132 would have been perfect! It would allow Muller to play alongside Lewa where he is most effective while still keeping our wide players happy but it would mean dropping one of our midfielders but since it would be Alonso that's not an issue.



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I know he is out of form, but what about King Arthur? :-/

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Re: [2016-09-28] Atlético vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCB general » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:34 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:I know he is out of form, but what about King Arthur?

Martinez-Vidal rotation. I find it fair for both guys. Kimmich for Thiago. Coman & Costa instead of Rib & Rob. Everyone can find their place and playing time. Injuries and suspensions are normal part of this sport. We still need one backup striker in my opinion, as well as that damn CB since Badstuber hasn't been a serious option for almost 4 years.
That's how I see this situation even though I can say we still miss one more central midfielder because I don't see a width in Alonso. That's why I want Thorgan Hazard when we didn't go after Xhaka.
We'll have to stick this season with this what we have and hope we are going to win trophies in May, but in summer big changes are necessary.
I haven't been mad on Guardiola like I used to be during the first two seasons, but he should've stayed and make the same what Heynckes did for him - fix things and leave a brutal squad of 23-25 professionals. Regardless of my opinion and views on him, I wanted him to stay at Bayern for 2 more seasons just because of the reason in the previous sentence, but he chose to move to City. :|

p.s. Funny thing that Ancelotti actually didn't use his 4-3-3 against Bayern in 2013/14 semifinal, but it was a pure transformation into 4-4-2. There were 2 post-semifinal analysis about his tactics and that was really good.
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Re: [2016-09-28] Atlético vs Bayern Munich

Postby Jorge » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:05 pm

FCB general wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:I know he is out of form, but what about King Arthur?

... as well as that damn CB since Badstuber hasn't been a serious option for almost 4 years.


In reality we are not as weak in this area since Martinez and Alaba can play CB at the highest level, not to mention Kimmich incursions in this area has also been reliable. Moving Martinez to the back does not create problems in CM since we have Vidal and Kimmich or even Thiago can be dropped back to more defensive duties without creating a rippling effect. Alaba as a CB could create a problem in the left wing but at BL level Bernat is an option, if it comes down to crucial CL games then it gets more complicated: we need him there.

If we need a backup for a position that is certainly as a central striker, if Lewa gets injured we will have to depend on the firepower coming from the midfield and I am not sure that we can pull through against top competition in that case.
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Re: [2016-09-28] Atlético vs Bayern Munich

Postby Homawk » Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:06 pm

It's funny, plenty of people on Reddit seem to believe Alonso was our best midfielder this match, and that Vidal and Thiago were only liabilities.

I honestly don't think Alonso is a bad player, he just has weaknesses easily exploited by by sides like Atletico. And to say he was our best midfielder that night...
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Re: [2016-09-28] Atlético vs Bayern Munich

Postby La Bestia Negra » Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:17 pm

Honestly our defense and offense were decent but the theme of this entire season seems to be a disorganized midfield. I also don't like Vidal always dropping back to cover the space Alaba leaves, I don't think we see the best of him this way
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Re: [2016-09-28] Atlético vs Bayern Munich

Postby Firefox1234 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:50 pm

La Bestia Negra wrote:Honestly our defense and offense were decent but the theme of this entire season seems to be a disorganized midfield. I also don't like Vidal always dropping back to cover the space Alaba leaves, I don't think we see the best of him this way


I agree! This is another area Pep had right by dropping Thiago for most games last season to allow Vidal more freedom to do his thing. Vidal is a lot more useful when he is a box to box role but that doesn't mean he isn't a good holding player it's just that it's not his forte. I would have preferred to have seen Thiago play much deeper and let Vidal make his famous runs into the box that he is capable of.
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Re: [2016-09-28] Atlético vs Bayern Munich

Postby PunkCapitalist » Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:22 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:
La Bestia Negra wrote:Honestly our defense and offense were decent but the theme of this entire season seems to be a disorganized midfield. I also don't like Vidal always dropping back to cover the space Alaba leaves, I don't think we see the best of him this way


I agree! This is another area Pep had right by dropping Thiago for most games last season to allow Vidal more freedom to do his thing. Vidal is a lot more useful when he is a box to box role but that doesn't mean he isn't a good holding player it's just that it's not his forte. I would have preferred to have seen Thiago play much deeper and let Vidal make his famous runs into the box that he is capable of.

This is why Xabi's inclusion is perplexing. He is taking Thiago's space and role. If Carlo does indeed view Thiago as his new Pirlo, he needs to bench Xabi and let Thiago do his thing.

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Re: [2016-09-28] Atlético vs Bayern Munich

Postby Firefox1234 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:16 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
Firefox1234 wrote:
La Bestia Negra wrote:Honestly our defense and offense were decent but the theme of this entire season seems to be a disorganized midfield. I also don't like Vidal always dropping back to cover the space Alaba leaves, I don't think we see the best of him this way


I agree! This is another area Pep had right by dropping Thiago for most games last season to allow Vidal more freedom to do his thing. Vidal is a lot more useful when he is a box to box role but that doesn't mean he isn't a good holding player it's just that it's not his forte. I would have preferred to have seen Thiago play much deeper and let Vidal make his famous runs into the box that he is capable of.

This is why Xabi's inclusion is perplexing. He is taking Thiago's space and role. If Carlo does indeed view Thiago as his new Pirlo, he needs to bench Xabi and let Thiago do his thing.

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I assume Carlo like Pep doesn't think Thiago doesn't posses the same defensive capabilities as Xabi Alonso which I somewhat agree with. But in my opinion that should put more pressure to have a "sitter" or anchorman in the midfield while Thiago plays deeper and Vidal is free to do what he does best instead of being relegated to a facilitator role. Thiago may offer flair around the box but rarely makes meaningful runs or shots on goal to justify him playing in an advanced role....
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Re: [2016-09-28] Atlético vs Bayern Munich

Postby EnVyUs » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:55 pm

remember how bayern played vs spanish clubs when martinez was using as CDM
plz bring him back to his strongest position
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Re: [2016-09-28] Atlético vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:35 am

BayernForum.com MOTM was Manuel Neuer with an average Voopl vote of 5.69.
2nd place Martinez and Thiago (joint at 5.62) [source]
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