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2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:57 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:Yes, the same Porto team that sent RB Leipzig to Europa League

How can you say Liverpool is crap? :shock:


Shitty overrated, Liverpool crap, Tottenham meh, Chelsea rubbish, Juve shit, Porto and Basel mediocre.... is there any good team in this years CL ?????


At RBL's first ever CL participation...

Liverpool is definitely crap. They have a good front 3 but their midfield is mediocre and their defense awful. They can't keep a clean sheet for the life of theirs.

Shitty is good, but not the godlike team they are making them to be.

Wanna bet Chelsea will get stuffed by Barça? At least a 3 goal difference on aggregate. More is likely.

This year's CL is more competitive mostly because the top teams have more or less worsened (Barça, Madrid), the second-tier teams are off-colour (Juve, Atlético, BVB [facepalm]). While the English have indeed improved (Shitty and United mostly, Chelsea went downhill this season, and Liverpool is just crap. Tottenham is the same good-but-not-great side it has been for several years) and also PSG spent USD 1bn or something like that.

Bayern is an incognita so far, I think we've improved markedly from last season, but it remains to be seen if we have the squad to compete at the toppest level. I believe that if were able to put Javi and Thiago in MF, while keeping James on the field, Boa and Hummels on defense, Lewy on attack and Neuer at Goal, we can face any team. Those are our key players and in an hypothetical match against say Barça we would need them all.

Quality has, indeed, converges to the middle.

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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:35 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:Liverpool is definitely crap. They have a good front 3 but their midfield is mediocre and their defense awful. They can't keep a clean sheet for the life of theirs.

Their last 4 fixtures.

Huddersfield Town 0-3 Liverpool (kept clean sheet)
Liverpool 2-2 Tottenham (controversial decisions)
Southampton 0-2 Liverpool (kept clean sheet)
Porto 0-5 Liverpool (kept clean sheet)

Oh yes, absolutely, they can't keep a clean sheet.
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby aterford » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:18 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:I roughly never mention the referee when analyzing a game, but I have to say I'm starting to believe UEFA might have something against PSG because of Financial Fair Play and all those things.

Last year all the decisions in Camp Nou were against them, and yesterday that penalty on Kroos was ridiculous.

I can understand that a referee might not see a penalty like Ramos handball. That things happen in football. But let's not forget that yesterday the referee was not giving soft fouls in the first half an hour or so and then out of nothing he comes up with that joke of a penalty :shock:


About the game, Zidane clearly got it right not using the BBC from the beginning and PSG should've killed the game in that space of 20 minutes in the second half when they were clearly better. They had a similar second half than against us.

But once Lucas and Asensio came into play Real balanced the game and in the end scored two lucky goals.


This is my point here.
I think the Kroos pen was soft though I can understand why it would be called as such (though it should be noted it sure looked like there was offside in the buildup to the pen)

BUT, if you're not going to call the SAME contact as a foul in the field of play...it doesn't turn into a foul in the box. You cannot let everything slide for the first half and then suddenly decide it's a foul in the dying minutes. It has to be called consistently AND the same for both sides.

I have no dog in this fight. I hate Madrid and I hate PSG just about as much. I like to think I am a fairly objective viewer. But I will tell you with absolute conviction that both teams were not playing to the same standard. The things that were called a foul against PSG were ignored when Madrid did the same. The calls that went in favor of Madrid were waved off when the same happened to PSG.
As I said above, look at the fouls called on Lo Celso, Rabiot, and the non-call vs Ronaldo on Kimpembe to start a Madrid counterattack.
All three looked virtually identical. Little or no contact, one player goes down in a heap. Rabiot? Yellow. Lo Celso? Yellow. Ronaldo? No whistle whatsoever, a foul wasn't even considered.

That being said, Emery utterly s**t the bed. I can understand the decision to start Kimpembe over Silva as IMO Silva has been quite poor in recent years and fades in big matches. And Kimpembe wasn't that bad. but the decision to start Lo Celso was mind-boggling. and the fact that he was allowed to go 80+ minutes while CLEARLY being the worst player on the pitch was absolute insanity. Starting Draxler, Pastore, Di Maria, even Diarra (assuming he was fit enough) would've been better. And even into the second half, Real Madrid didn't look that much better at all until Emery made yet another head-scratching decision to pull out Cavani and replace with Meunier and put Alves in the midfield. Zidane played to win; Emery played to not lose.

Rabiot said it best. "We always say the same things, we always do the same things, and in the end, we are always floored in the same way. It’s all well and good putting eight goals past Dijon, but it’s in matches like this that you have to stand up and be counted."

Still, I don't buy into the Madrid hype. I hear so many people talking about how even though they're in sh*t form "You can't count out Real Madrid, they always show up when it comes time for the Champions League"
Was I watching the same match? Did anybody watch that game and think "Wow, Madrid sure looks dominant, definitely a team to watch out for in the UCL"?? They played poorly. They didn't look strong. They beat a team who was playing negative football for the final third of the game and did so with the assistance of some... questionable ... decisions. Let's not all start acting terrified of Madrid after one sloppy win.
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby La Bestia Negra » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:13 pm

^^ Not to mention Ronaldo fouled Marquinhos before the second goal. I dont think it was biased reffing I just think it was bad, flopping on both sides like crazy
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:30 pm

MUTU wrote:The Juventus penalty should have been retaken... Pjanic almost kicked the penalty himself lol.... And another penalty awarded now.

Why is nobody talking about this?

I was wrong it was Bernardeschi not Pjanic.

From the video below:
0:24 Bernardeschi enters the box (and remains inside)
0:26 Higuain kicks the ball

I know it's pretty common for players to enter the box while a penalty is being taken but two whole seconds before is a major cry for a penalty retake to me.

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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:42 pm

La Bestia Negra wrote:^^ Not to mention Ronaldo fouled Marquinhos before the second goal. I dont think it was biased reffing I just think it was bad, flopping on both sides like crazy


Nope, dive...

@aterford: No they were not that great, but yesterday the better team IMHO... Thing is: the way people in here tend to OVERhype our own squad is proportional to the way others are DOWNplayed... I think we might’ve played better, but we would’ve also conceded more... For me it’s gonna be Shitty, hands down...
They’re too good, give the philosopher a chance to be hailed again, not like he spent a whole squad‘s worth within a few months...
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby La Bestia Negra » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:54 pm

#12 wrote:
La Bestia Negra wrote:^^ Not to mention Ronaldo fouled Marquinhos before the second goal. I dont think it was biased reffing I just think it was bad, flopping on both sides like crazy


Nope, dive...



After watching that a few more times you're right. That's some masterful diving though
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:55 pm

Well, maybe dive is too harsh - he was expecting a -hard- hit - it just didn’t come... But no real contact in that scene...
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby aterford » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:20 pm

#12 wrote:
La Bestia Negra wrote:^^ Not to mention Ronaldo fouled Marquinhos before the second goal. I dont think it was biased reffing I just think it was bad, flopping on both sides like crazy


Nope, dive...

@aterford: No they were not that great, but yesterday the better team IMHO... Thing is: the way people in here tend to OVERhype our own squad is proportional to the way others are DOWNplayed... I think we might’ve played better, but we would’ve also conceded more... For me it’s gonna be Shitty, hands down...
They’re too good, give the philosopher a chance to be hailed again, not like he spent a whole squad‘s worth within a few months...


I get what you're saying.
But what I'm saying is this: There's a difference between "the better team won" (I'd concede that) and "Real Madrid are back" or "Real Madrid always show up in the UCL" or "You can't underestimate Real Madrid in the Champions League" etc etc - they still played poorly. That doesn't mean they weren't *better* than PSG. They were the better team of the two, but that's not the same as playing a good game.

That's my ultimate point. I'm not saying we're favorites (in the UCL at least. You know my thoughts on the pokal ;) ) but rather it feels many are already starting to crown Madrid based on reputation alone. They haven't been good this year domestically and they haven't played well in Europe either; winning a sloppy match vs a PSG side who tried to shoot themselves in the foot at every opportunities does not put them back on top (or even clearly ahead of us, for that matter)
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby aterford » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:22 pm

#12 wrote:Well, maybe dive is too harsh - he was expecting a -hard- hit - it just didn’t come... But no real contact in that scene...


Yes, it looked more anticipatory than a real foul (I thought it was Kimpembe, not Marquinhos but maybe I'm mistaken..)....
But it was the same "look" as Rabiot on Modric or yellow on Lo Celso. Both *looked* like a foul at first glance and at game pace they all looked identical: looked like contact, player goes flying. Going against PSG the referee did not hesitate to blow the whistle and give a yellow card, he didn't give it a moment's thought. When a PSG player was the one appeared to be fouled? Waved it off, didn't think about it for a second. Coincidence? perhaps. But seemed to follow the trend for the whole evening.
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:18 am

aterford wrote:
#12 wrote:
La Bestia Negra wrote:^^ Not to mention Ronaldo fouled Marquinhos before the second goal. I dont think it was biased reffing I just think it was bad, flopping on both sides like crazy


Nope, dive...

@aterford: No they were not that great, but yesterday the better team IMHO... Thing is: the way people in here tend to OVERhype our own squad is proportional to the way others are DOWNplayed... I think we might’ve played better, but we would’ve also conceded more... For me it’s gonna be Shitty, hands down...
They’re too good, give the philosopher a chance to be hailed again, not like he spent a whole squad‘s worth within a few months...


I get what you're saying.
But what I'm saying is this: There's a difference between "the better team won" (I'd concede that) and "Real Madrid are back" or "Real Madrid always show up in the UCL" or "You can't underestimate Real Madrid in the Champions League" etc etc - they still played poorly. That doesn't mean they weren't *better* than PSG. They were the better team of the two, but that's not the same as playing a good game.

That's my ultimate point. I'm not saying we're favorites (in the UCL at least. You know my thoughts on the pokal ;) ) but rather it feels many are already starting to crown Madrid based on reputation alone. They haven't been good this year domestically and they haven't played well in Europe either; winning a sloppy match vs a PSG side who tried to shoot themselves in the foot at every opportunities does not put them back on top (or even clearly ahead of us, for that matter)


Okay, that I can mostly agree on (still think they kinda "always show up" when it matters as they always manage to play well enough to win... and also you REALLY can’t underestimate them - but yeah, there’s better teams this year, far better) - always bearing in mind that beating a better team still requires a better performance to look as shitty as let’s say against Gijon...

aterford wrote:
#12 wrote:Well, maybe dive is too harsh - he was expecting a -hard- hit - it just didn’t come... But no real contact in that scene...


Yes, it looked more anticipatory than a real foul (I thought it was Kimpembe, not Marquinhos but maybe I'm mistaken..)....
But it was the same "look" as Rabiot on Modric or yellow on Lo Celso. Both *looked* like a foul at first glance and at game pace they all looked identical: looked like contact, player goes flying. Going against PSG the referee did not hesitate to blow the whistle and give a yellow card, he didn't give it a moment's thought. When a PSG player was the one appeared to be fouled? Waved it off, didn't think about it for a second. Coincidence? perhaps. But seemed to follow the trend for the whole evening.


Well, as I said, I reject conspiracy theories... A ref call depends on many things... In real time play it looked like a foul to me as well... Depending on position changes if a few centimeters on the field and respective angle, a ref can make a perfect call or build up a pile of shit... Maybe RM were lucky, they weren’t favored IMHO... Soft penalty? Definitely kinda soft, but 100% rule book nonetheless... Penalties like that one are awarded for stupidity, not the foul itself...
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby aterford » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:09 am

I too tend to reject conspiracy theories, but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck.... If this hadn't happened for Madrid COUNTLESS times in the past I'd probably reject it too. But it's indisputable that Madrid has a long history of receiving the beneficial end of refereeing decision (dating all the way back to the Franco era) so I have a hard time giving them the benefit of the doubt any further.
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Achilles » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:01 am

The RM v PSG game for me was decided mostly by coaches decisions. Emery did everything to help Real Madrid win and Zidane did everything for Real Madrid to win as well so the outcome after their respectively subs and tactical re-adjustments was logical for me.

Overall during the game PSG looked superior to me but again they lack enormously the winning-mentality, the ruthless instinct of winners to end games, they simply just can't transfer their "winning mentality" from Ligue 1 to CL. Regardless the referees decisions last year or in this game, when passion and mentality where called upon PSG had nothing to show. That's the impression they're giving to me every time despite their great quality.
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:42 am

MUTU wrote:
MUTU wrote:The Juventus penalty should have been retaken... Pjanic almost kicked the penalty himself lol.... And another penalty awarded now.

Why is nobody talking about this?

I was wrong it was Bernardeschi not Pjanic.

From the video below:
0:24 Bernardeschi enters the box (and remains inside)
0:26 Higuain kicks the ball

I know it's pretty common for players to enter the box while a penalty is being taken but two whole seconds before is a major cry for a penalty retake to me.



Not sure on the exact rule for retaking but I think you may b exaggerating a little as he stopped. It's true that he was probably a distraction though.
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:51 pm

Kroos was offside before being fouled in the box by Lo Celso :shock:

Image

I just can't believe how lucky Real Madrid are with offside decisions in CL.
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