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2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:17 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:Our team got better under him. When I say the team I do mean just the team - he failed to capitalise on so much quality in the biggest stage, the results got worse from 2013, yes, but whatever Pep did it was anything but making the quality of the team worse. Every single player, other than the dying Ribery, improved.
So how come we improved and yet we ended up ridiculed in Europe.

He was not at fault only in 2016

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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:21 pm

Please don't try to be smart. Did you miss the part where I agree that he failed to capitalise on the quality? It was a failure, I already said that - whatever he did, whether it's stubbornness, transfers, management, that would be his fault. Footballing wise, our players did improve.
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:26 pm

It’s especially his tactical naivety - with all the ruses, moves, gambits he pulled, he always gifted away goals in AA while being a **** coward every time he felt "foreign" soil and never even trying to score there...
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:33 pm

Yeah sure.

Still the point is however long you want to write down Pep's mistakes in Bayern, by no means "making our team worse" should be in that list.
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:36 pm

No I think it should... Cause that’s exactly it! He made sone players definitely better... On an individual level... Maybe most of them... But not the team overall...
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:41 pm

Agree to disagree then. The individuals, team and football we were playing were better under him as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:43 pm

Well, how do you define or even measure the quality of play?
One tging‘s for sure: I was WAY more entertained by Heynckes’ style of play...
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:47 pm

Subjective. How do you measure the taste of food?

I was more entertained under Pep.
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:51 pm

Well so long as you acknowledge that it’s subjective... There‘s others here who pray for his blessing every night... ;)
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby aterford » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:54 pm

We should also note that there's not always a direct relationship between "improvement" and "results". That's far too simplistic to assume that's the case.
It's perfectly possible for a team to improve - to be playing better - and not get the same results as the year prior.

For a perhaps too simple example: pretend you have a strongman competition.
Contestant A is able to lift 200kg.
Contestant B is able to lift 190kg.
Contestant A wins.
Next year:
Contestant A lifts 210kg.
Contestant B lifts 215kg.
Contestant B wins.
In this case, "A" has still improved, though not necessarily got the same results. There are FAR too many variables (draw, opponent level, etc) to simply say that "12/13 won the treble and 13/14 didn't, so we didn't improve"
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:01 pm

(we are way off topic... My apologies)

Actually this would be one of the few times I might disagree with you aterford.

I think we had enough to beat Madrid and Atletico in the respective semi finals - for Barca, I can't help but admit they were otherworldly and your analogy would be right.

In the case of the other two ties, I don't think it was the case they could lift more than us. We just weren't concentrating and didn't show up. Dare I also say "unlucky", especially against Atletico, but regardless there's very little excuse for not winning at least 1 CL trophy in those 3 years.
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Teebo » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:06 pm

Well he failed in the Champions League, no question about that. However, every manager failed during their careers, including the almighty Jupp, and I still consider his failure relatively mild (and Ancelotti managed to put it in a completely new perspective).
The Chelsea game is a popular example, but almost everybody forgets that serious mistakes were made on both sides (especially taking into account both matches, not just the second one). And maybe in 2009 Barca got lucky in SF, but the opposite is true in 2010 and 2012.
And it's not about conquering France, it's about levelling it to the ground. ;)
It's a pity we probably won't see Pep in a second-tier team, but don't forget that he also won the league even with Barca's reserve side in his first season. Also, I repeat that it's really dificult to reach really good results after investing huge amounts in the squad. Try to look at the managers who failed and who succeeded in these situations, you'll be surprised.

But enough of the off-topic, it's a fair point about City, also hate all the Arabic / Russian oil clubs.
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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:07 pm

I hope Jupp meets Pep... and beat the hell out of him... and I am super positive that Jupp will do it

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Re: 2017/18 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby aterford » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:31 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:(we are way off topic... My apologies)

Actually this would be one of the few times I might disagree with you aterford.

I think we had enough to beat Madrid and Atletico in the respective semi finals - for Barca, I can't help but admit they were otherworldly and your analogy would be right.

In the case of the other two ties, I don't think it was the case they could lift more than us. We just weren't concentrating and didn't show up. Dare I also say "unlucky", especially against Atletico, but regardless there's very little excuse for not winning at least 1 CL trophy in those 3 years.


Fair enough, and admittedly it was probably overly simplistic. But I think the point still stands: Your team can get "better" while your results might end up "worse".
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Re: [2018-03-16] Bayern Munich vs ??? — CL draw

Postby FCB12Forever » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:50 pm

The Sevilla coach has mentioned us in his interview and he said he hope they don't draw Bayern.
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