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2016/2017 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

Re: 2016/2017 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby nm462272 » Wed May 03, 2017 9:27 pm

yikes. he may have also been partially to blame for 1st juve goal
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Re: 2016/2017 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby sherpthederp » Wed May 03, 2017 9:38 pm

I liked seeing Bernardo going shoulder to shoulder trying to win balls back all match, he reminds me of Ribery, always getting into challenges when not in possession.
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Re: 2016/2017 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Jorge » Wed May 03, 2017 10:21 pm

#12 wrote:plus Kroos actually still **** up big games (World Cup Final anyone?)


I keep reading this quote in the forum, mainly related to the childish Thiago vs Kroos comparison, but just out of curiosity: what "games" did Kroos screw up? The World Cup final because the misplaced a pass to Higuain? Since it wasn't a goal how is that a screw up? Kroos claims he did not see Higuain because he was behind Hummels, many believe it was nerves, but nerves also got in Higuain's way and who knows how many others.

The only thing that matters is that Kroos contributed to Germany's crown as much as any other player as he finished the competition at the top of the Castrol Performance Index.

As for misplacing a pass in a game, how can we point fingers at Kroos if the best midfielder in the world had 10 team mates to pass the ball to, but passed it to Santa Claus instead?

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Re: 2016/2017 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Wed May 03, 2017 11:02 pm

Can't see the vid - but if you say it's childish, why do you take part?

I think he was somewhat of a flop in big games... So was Ronaldo for a long time, so were Basti and the skipper... Doesn't mean too much...
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Re: 2016/2017 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Jorge » Wed May 03, 2017 11:28 pm

#12 wrote:Can't see the vid - but if you say it's childish, why do you take part?

I think he was somewhat of a flop in big games... So was Ronaldo for a long time, so were Basti and the skipper... Doesn't mean too much...


Let's be fair: so Thiago.
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Re: 2016/2017 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Pelin » Wed May 03, 2017 11:34 pm

Hardrade wrote:I have to ask, since I stumble upon the same problem highlighted in almost every topic - why are the higher wages so much of a pain in the ass for us? I mean, we are not in debt, financial situation is very sound... is our board just notoriously cheap or am I missing something here? Real is probably richer, sure, but not by much compared to us. :roll:

Nope, we are richer than Real, just because their budget consists of different branchs such as basketball, handball e.t.c. while ours is only football.

also considering our wage bill is low compared to theirs.
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Re: 2016/2017 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby JANCKER » Thu May 04, 2017 12:18 am

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Re: 2016/2017 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Jorge » Thu May 04, 2017 12:19 am

Pelin wrote:
Hardrade wrote:I have to ask, since I stumble upon the same problem highlighted in almost every topic - why are the higher wages so much of a pain in the ass for us? I mean, we are not in debt, financial situation is very sound... is our board just notoriously cheap or am I missing something here? Real is probably richer, sure, but not by much compared to us. :roll:

Nope, we are richer than Real, just because their budget consists of different branchs such as basketball, handball e.t.c. while ours is only football.

also considering our wage bill is low compared to theirs.


Real Madrid is substantially richer than us, just the way we are substantially richer than our next Bundesliga rival:

Forbes valuation:

Real Madrid: 3.65 Billion
Bayern Munich: 2.68 Billion
Dortmund: 836 Million

Now when it comes to revenue we are not far behind:

Real Madrid: 694 Million
Bayern: 570 Million
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Re: 2016/2017 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby tflags » Thu May 04, 2017 2:12 am

Jorge wrote:I keep reading this quote in the forum, mainly related to the childish Thiago vs Kroos comparison,


I did plenty of stat based comparisons between them. Is that something you are referring to Jorge?
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Re: 2016/2017 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Jorge » Thu May 04, 2017 3:04 am

tflags wrote:
Jorge wrote:I keep reading this quote in the forum, mainly related to the childish Thiago vs Kroos comparison,


I did plenty of stat based comparisons between them. Is that something you are referring to Jorge?


Not exactly, although sometimes it reaches the level of teenagers arguing about penis size. A kind of like the Messi-Ronaldo thing.

Bottom line: both are good players, but neither one in the big scheme of things mean much for Bayern history, that's how the debate sounds childish. As today, when it comes to Bayern Munich nobody will talk about Kroos or Thiago 20 years from now.

But also as today, in the context of International Football, Toni Kroos is 3 or 4 times a more accomplished footballer than Thiago is. The rest is sandbox play.
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Re: 2016/2017 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby tflags » Thu May 04, 2017 11:00 am

Jorge wrote:But also as today, in the context of International Football, Toni Kroos is 3 or 4 times a more accomplished footballer than Thiago is. The rest is sandbox play.


Yes, I see what you mean. It can get really childish while discussing them. Great contribution to the discussions.
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Re: 2016/2017 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Jorge » Thu May 04, 2017 2:49 pm

tflags wrote:
Jorge wrote:But also as today, in the context of International Football, Toni Kroos is 3 or 4 times a more accomplished footballer than Thiago is. The rest is sandbox play.


Yes, I see what you mean. It can get really childish while discussing them. Great contribution to the discussions.


Comparing players, discussing players, that's all that we adults do in this forum. No problem with that. The discussion becomes childish when it takes a turn and all of the sudden is tribal. It goes like this: -"if you don't like my player, I don't like yours". Then, a football educated fan - like many here- reduce themselves to the effort of putting down the other player with cheap shots. Why can't we celebrate together both Kroos and Thiago?

Kroos' backpass at the World Cup final is so minuscule compared to his contributions to Bayern, Germany, Real Madrid, and Football that it is childish to use it to make a point; it has no meaning beyond the 2 seconds in that game, so it comes across as a childish argument in the context of putting Kroos down with the purpose of elevating Thiago, another player, or simply out of resentment because Kroos no longer plays for us. What's the point of a list of players that "flop in big games" with the purpose of framing Kroos if that list is inclusive of proven champions? Do we have to remind everyone that some of our beloved players DO NOT BELONG TO THAT CATEGORY?

Thiago should rise to where he belongs on his own merits, and as today his accomplishments do not place him where Toni Kroos is. That's a fact.

Other than that, I wish Kroos would have stayed at Bayern Munich, the Kroos that dictates play in one of the best teams in the world placing thousands of passes accurately on his team mate's tactical channels before he misplaces one, in all games, against big opponents and small opponents; I wish that, the same way that I enjoy Thiago putting a good performance, and the same way I wish that Thiago will grow to carry Bayern to bigger things, something that he still needs to deliver.
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Re: 2016/2017 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby #12 » Thu May 04, 2017 7:26 pm

Thousands is waaaayyy exaggerated though
I didn't even mention Thiago... And I just wanted to point out that, while he is good at passing, he was sometimes a liability with his - few - misplaced passes being extremely dangerous...
And I think he would work well in a midfield together with Thiago...
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Re: 2016/2017 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby tflags » Thu May 04, 2017 8:12 pm

Jorge wrote:Comparing players, discussing players, that's all that we adults do in this forum. No problem with that. The discussion becomes childish when it takes a turn and all of the sudden is tribal. It goes like this: -"if you don't like my player, I don't like yours". Then, a football educated fan - like many here- reduce themselves to the effort of putting down the other player with cheap shots. Why can't we celebrate together both Kroos and Thiago?

Kroos' backpass at the World Cup final is so minuscule compared to his contributions to Bayern, Germany, Real Madrid, and Football that it is childish to use it to make a point; it has no meaning beyond the 2 seconds in that game, so it comes across as a childish argument in the context of putting Kroos down with the purpose of elevating Thiago, another player, or simply out of resentment because Kroos no longer plays for us. What's the point of a list of players that "flop in big games" with the purpose of framing Kroos if that list is inclusive of proven champions? Do we have to remind everyone that some of our beloved players DO NOT BELONG TO THAT CATEGORY?

Thiago should rise to where he belongs on his own merits, and as today his accomplishments do not place him where Toni Kroos is. That's a fact.

Other than that, I wish Kroos would have stayed at Bayern Munich, the Kroos that dictates play in one of the best teams in the world placing thousands of passes accurately on his team mate's tactical channels before he misplaces one, in all games, against big opponents and small opponents; I wish that, the same way that I enjoy Thiago putting a good performance, and the same way I wish that Thiago will grow to carry Bayern to bigger things, something that he still needs to deliver.


Funny, I don't see that the argument has changed much. Don't worry, I don't think, however, any of it is childish. But I guess that's just me.
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Re: 2016/2017 UEFA Champions League Discussion Thread

Postby Jorge » Fri May 05, 2017 5:35 am

#12 wrote:Thousands is waaaayyy exaggerated though ...


Toni Kroos/ Completed passes/ La Liga:
2014-2015: 2,071 (it reads two thousand seventy one)
2015-2016: 2,250 (it reads two thousand two hundred and fifty)
2016-2017: 1,748 (after 34 game dates he is on target to complete more than.............you guessed it: two thousand)

#12 wrote:while he is good at passing, he was sometimes a liability with his - few - misplaced passes being extremely dangerous...


Now out of curiosity, since we are into the exercise of counting and to honor your comment: "plus Kroos actually still **** up big games", can you give us the number of big games that Kroos ****up? Is it 3, or 30, or 300? If the number is too big you do not need to list which ones, just give us an approximate number.
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