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[2015-01-30] VfL Wolfsburg vs Bayern Munich

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What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:30 pm

VfL Wolfsburg will win
2
9%
It will end in a draw
2
9%
Bayern Munich will win
19
83%
 
Total votes : 23

Re: [2015-01-30] VfL Wolfsburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby RedQueen » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:40 pm

Whether or not the set pieces were a result of counter attacks, you should be able to defend them. They would have scored whether the set piece resulted from a counter attack or not. Trying to avoid set pieces instead of being able to defend them doesn't seem the wisest strategy.

All of that reminds me of Jogi Löw who insisted he wasn't about to "waste time" on practising set pieces, although everyone knew that was the weak point of the team. Fortunately for us Hansi Flick stepped in and pushed it through. Some managers seem to think practising set pieces is somehow beneath them. I daresay we wouldn't be World Champions without it. Only Bayern seems to lack a Hansi Flick.
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Re: [2015-01-30] VfL Wolfsburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby JANCKER » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:47 pm

We don't have players that have 'dead ball' gene in their blood, I think it takes more than practice.
Boateng is just tall, that's it. After Boateng scored Jupp paid for a dinner to the team. You gotta live with it...
We need Martinez back... :roll:
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Re: [2015-01-30] VfL Wolfsburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby RedQueen » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:54 pm

Benatia at least managed to score from a comparable situation. Dante scored from a corner in a test game too. But my point was more about defending set pieces than scoring from them. You don't need a dead ball gene for that.
(Btw., I'm not trying to belittle the counter attack problem at all, just saying that it's not the only reason for the defeat against Madrid).
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Re: [2015-01-30] VfL Wolfsburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby JANCKER » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:13 pm

Maybe Benatia can improve us a little in that aspect, but for me another former Roma player has better aerial abilities than him(Marquinos).
Kroos' has been taking our set pieces without success here, it's a different story when he plays for Germany or for RM now. Simply put we're weak in aerial duels, that's no secret so we have to deal it somehow: score more? prevent? I think the solution is to score more, but we miserably fail when we concede first, we gotta find a trick...
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Re: [2015-01-30] VfL Wolfsburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby runaway » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:57 pm

Ye of little faith.

98% the system works when it fails, a lot clamors for a change. When a player doesn't perform immediately, sell them. Guys, have a little faith on the team, on the players, on the manager that they know what they want and have to do. If it was up to fans, Neuer would never be at Bayern, Robben would be sold ages ago, as well as Boateng. If one failure makes us question everything we are, we'll never build our own character.

Just look at BVB, they're in a shit hole. But they are staying true to what they are and what they believe in and they are standing behind their manager because they know (and the majority) that this slump will end and they will get back on their own feet.

On those rare moments we lose, the doomsdayers, 'the sky is falling', 'we're going to lose everything' comes out with megaphones on their hands.Honigstein's new article points it out eloquently:
On the few occasions that they don't win, they never accept the other side as having been better. That's what good losers would do. Bayern, however, don't lose well. They immediately conduct no-holds-barred post-mortems while the corpse is still twitching, scratching their heads and asking why and how it was they didn't show their true face, didn't play at their best, ended up beating themselves. At this point, the manager often bites the bullet.

On the RM game:
"It's the most misunderstood game ever," one leading player said privately. Guardiola's system didn't fail; Bayern failed because they had abandoned his system.

Things were easier when Bayern didn't have the 'we will win everything' mentality but rather 'we can win' and when we're not automatic favorites and everyone's expectations are not astronomical. Today, even losing in friendlies is a big issue. Even conceding one goal is a big issue. :lol:

There's too many variables in football that even if a team prepares for everything, anything is still possible. Luck plays a big part and sometimes, we just have to stop overanalyzing things and accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith on what will be.
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Re: [2015-01-30] VfL Wolfsburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby RedQueen » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:11 pm

I've read that Honigstein-article, and I think he's wrong with that:
On the few occasions that they don't win, they never accept the other side as having been better.


He probably has Lahm's (rather absurd) statement in mind when he said Bayern were the better side after having lost 2:5 against Dortmund. But yesterday Guardiola said Wolfsburg had been the better side on that day, and in regard to the defeat against Real Madrid Neuer has said several times that Real were clearly the better side on that day. Same goes for the Supercup back in August. (They didn't say that when they lost against City in December, and it wouldn't have been true for that game). Even the "leading player" quote doesn't say Bayern were the better side, it just says that the defeat wasn't due to the system failing.

runaway wrote:Just look at BVB, they're in a shit hole. But they are staying true to what they are and what they believe in and they are standing behind their manager because they know (and the majority) that this slump will end and they will get back on their own feet.

Or maybe it's precisely that what will lead Dortmund to their demise. The other day an article was published in "Die Zeit" saying that Dortmund isn't a football club but a cult; even the faintest attempt at criticizing anything Klopp does is considered sacriledge.
Last edited by RedQueen on Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [2015-01-30] VfL Wolfsburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby JANCKER » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:16 pm

runaway wrote:If it was up to fans, Neuer would never be at Bayern, Robben would be sold ages ago, as well as Boateng.


I don't find myself amongst these fans. Add to that I never was against Pep... but everything has its limits. Pep is finding more support than LvG for example from everyone, everyone wanted his head at some point, while I didn't... not asking for Pep's either, but I see no progress from last year. I will ask for his head if he repeats the same from last year...
Stats were on our side even last year but these issues that stay quiet until we meet a squad that has everything to beat us... is nothing to be neglected.
When 100% of opposition tactics work, that is a clear signal to change the approach in something.
I'm happy it happened now rather than later, cause these issues were always there, I will be thankful to WB if we(Pep) learnt something from this game. Making it as if it was nothing, just an accident is not that smart...
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Re: [2015-01-30] VfL Wolfsburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:01 pm

JANCKER wrote:Maybe Benatia can improve us a little in that aspect, but for me another former Roma player has better aerial abilities than him(Marquinos).
Kroos' has been taking our set pieces without success here, it's a different story when he plays for Germany or for RM now. Simply put we're weak in aerial duels, that's no secret so we have to deal it somehow: score more? prevent? I think the solution is to score more, but we miserably fail when we concede first, we gotta find a trick...

yes I just cannot understand why we suffer like that when we find our selves behind?


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Re: [2015-01-30] VfL Wolfsburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:04 pm

ramsej84 wrote:
JANCKER wrote:Maybe Benatia can improve us a little in that aspect, but for me another former Roma player has better aerial abilities than him(Marquinos).
Kroos' has been taking our set pieces without success here, it's a different story when he plays for Germany or for RM now. Simply put we're weak in aerial duels, that's no secret so we have to deal it somehow: score more? prevent? I think the solution is to score more, but we miserably fail when we concede first, we gotta find a trick...

yes I just cannot understand why we suffer like that when we find our selves behind?

Because any team in the world that's beating Bayern Munich will park the bus and work on counter-attacks. Bayern won't accept even a draw, hence they will go all out in attack trying to score the 2 (or more) goals needed in order to turn the loss into a win. This urgency means that Bayern are left open to counter-attacks. The opponents, on the other hand, have just been handed a huge morale boost: heck, they're beating the giants from Munich, who wouldn't have great morale? This morale, and Bayern's openness at the back gives them a chance to score again on the break.
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Re: [2015-01-30] VfL Wolfsburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:08 pm

but I ve been observing this since the LvG era...
I think that our team lacks 2things... aerial ability & b####. when things are going smooth everything is ok but of otherwise...nothings works out...and it is a big shame

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Re: [2015-01-30] VfL Wolfsburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:12 pm

ramsej84 wrote:but I ve been observing this since the LvG era...

Under LvG, Bayern were actually the masters of comeback. Did you forget Fiorentina and Man Utd for example?
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Re: [2015-01-30] VfL Wolfsburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby RedQueen » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:17 pm

We were behind against Dortmund in October and came back, and we were behind against City in December and came back, even with 10 men. The first game we won, the second we almost won. I can't see a pattern there.
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Re: [2015-01-30] VfL Wolfsburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby JANCKER » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:22 pm

The pattern is when our system fails, it fails big time. No problem with failing big time in the league...
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Re: [2015-01-30] VfL Wolfsburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:25 pm

Also, let's face it: we are a bit unused to being behind. Usually we're either drawing the opponents or winning. Our players (and coach) are out of practice of situations when the team is losing.
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Re: [2015-01-30] VfL Wolfsburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Guardiola has turned many games around, especially last season.
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