You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

[2012-08-25] SpVgg Greuther Fürth vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the German Bundesliga matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:30 pm

SpVgg Greuther Fürth will win
0
No votes
It will end in a draw
1
4%
Bayern Munich will win
27
96%
 
Total votes : 28

Re: [2012-08-25] SpVgg Greuther Fürth vs Bayern Munich

Postby quaazi » Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:05 pm

Yeah, apart from one, they all seem to be quite ambitious, direct passes rather than plain screwups.
The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
User avatar
quaazi
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 10079
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:13 pm
National Flag:
Estonia
Has thanked: 129 times
Been thanked: 2011 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2012-08-25] SpVgg Greuther Fürth vs Bayern Munich

Postby Commodore » Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:15 pm

Is that supposed to be a compliment for his "efforts"?
"There are two things I am afraid of: War and Oliver Kahn."

-Mehmet Scholl
User avatar
Commodore
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 918
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:41 pm
Location: GREAT LEADER™
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 276 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2012-08-25] SpVgg Greuther Fürth vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:16 pm

@Commodore: where did you get that picture from? I like it.
30GB free cloud storage. Click here for the referral.
User avatar
MUTU
Site Admin & EURO 2016 Prediction Game Winner
Site Admin & EURO 2016 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 31270
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: L-Imqabba, Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 5498 times
Been thanked: 8213 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: [2012-08-25] SpVgg Greuther Fürth vs Bayern Munich

Postby Commodore » Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:23 pm

MUTU wrote:@Commodore: where did you get that picture from? I like it.

Unfortunately it's only available in German I'm afraid. I've just checked the English version of Bundesliga.de and while they do have a detailed stats section for every match, they don't have the "Match Matrix".

http://www.bundesliga.de/de/liga/matche ... er=b&tag=1

Hit the tab that says "Spiel-Matrix" and you'll be able to toggle all sorts of those graphics, from shots, passes, runs, crosses etc for the whole team, a single player or a few selected players at once. If you're having trouble with the German meanings, go right ahead and ask.
"There are two things I am afraid of: War and Oliver Kahn."

-Mehmet Scholl
User avatar
Commodore
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 918
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:41 pm
Location: GREAT LEADER™
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 276 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2012-08-25] SpVgg Greuther Fürth vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:30 pm

Cheers! Didn't know about this at all! Now to make some Gomez stats... :mrgreen:
30GB free cloud storage. Click here for the referral.
User avatar
MUTU
Site Admin & EURO 2016 Prediction Game Winner
Site Admin & EURO 2016 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 31270
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: L-Imqabba, Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 5498 times
Been thanked: 8213 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: [2012-08-25] SpVgg Greuther Fürth vs Bayern Munich

Postby quaazi » Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:35 pm

You didn't? I'm pretty sure I linked to it a thousand times last season when I analyzed the data from it after BuLi games.
The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
User avatar
quaazi
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 10079
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:13 pm
National Flag:
Estonia
Has thanked: 129 times
Been thanked: 2011 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2012-08-25] SpVgg Greuther Fürth vs Bayern Munich

Postby Jorge » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:28 pm

Commodore wrote:I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.

-Winston Churchill

Seriously though, like you said, stats can be misleading. Obviously under no pressure at all a lateral to Dante should find its target more often than not. As soon as we start looking solely at vertical passes his completion percentage drops significantly though, and let's be honest: 82/12, while not being utterly horrible is nothing super special either.

Here are all 12 of his misplaced passes. Note how none of those is a lateral.

Image


12 misplaced passes is actually horrible for any CD in any game, which is not the same for an attacking midfielder as these operate in a more congested area of the field and with more pressure. What I said was that a few of those Boateng misplaced passes in the context of this game were very risky, the kind that the Dortmunds of this world will make us pay for.
As for stats, in football they do not determine any analysis but as we are all so opinionated (we all have a coach inside ourselves) it is the foundation of objectivity versus subjectivity.
User avatar
Jorge
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1515
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:32 pm
Location: Fort Lauderdale, USA
National Flag:
World Trade Organization
Has thanked: 106 times
Been thanked: 1042 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2012-08-25] SpVgg Greuther Fürth vs Bayern Munich

Postby Commodore » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:23 pm

Yeah, can't "Moneyball" in football at all, I agree. Football is way too dynamic, and does not run in such a predetermined way that Baseball does. There's simply no alternative to watching the whole game to form an opinion. Stats can supplement this very nicely though.
"There are two things I am afraid of: War and Oliver Kahn."

-Mehmet Scholl
User avatar
Commodore
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 918
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:41 pm
Location: GREAT LEADER™
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 276 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2012-08-25] SpVgg Greuther Fürth vs Bayern Munich

Postby thebigbug » Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:46 am

tbh, I was really impressed with Kroos' workrate in this match: he was all over the pitch, I think I even saw him win a tackle next to the corner flag in Bayern's half hahaha :mrgreen: Hopefully this isn't a one time thing, but at least he can find this sort of motivation against weaker opponents
User avatar
thebigbug
Woah, this feels cool!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:45 am
Location: USA
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 5 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2012-08-25] SpVgg Greuther Fürth vs Bayern Munich

Postby tflags » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:08 am

thebigbug wrote:tbh, I was really impressed with Kroos' workrate in this match: he was all over the pitch, I think I even saw him win a tackle next to the corner flag in Bayern's half hahaha :mrgreen: Hopefully this isn't a one time thing, but at least he can find this sort of motivation against weaker opponents


He did it vs Madrid in Munich; don't get fooled by heavy criticism on people wanting him to be the CAM he is not supposed to be when assigned DM.
Kimmich
Kimmich - Thiago - Kimmich
Kimmich -- Kimmich
Kimmich -- Hummels -- Boa --Kimmich
Kimmich with Gloves
User avatar
tflags
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 8956
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:41 pm
Location: Around the world... in 80 days.
National Flag:
Ecuador
Has thanked: 813 times
Been thanked: 2851 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: [2012-08-25] SpVgg Greuther Fürth vs Bayern Munich

Postby Commodore » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:31 am

He did play CAM vs Madrid twice, and he delivered big time.

He had a weak game as a pivot in the game vs Fürth.

I don't expect him to perform as either when fielded in the other role. I honestly don't expect much from him as a pivot. I want to see him as a #10 and there I expect great things from him and am usually not disappointed.

If everything goes according to plan, he'll have plenty of opportunities to play CAM in the future with Javi at pivot and him maybe rotating with Müller, Shaqiri and the other multi-talents we have up front. Kroos can play a mean left wing as well by the way.
"There are two things I am afraid of: War and Oliver Kahn."

-Mehmet Scholl
User avatar
Commodore
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 918
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:41 pm
Location: GREAT LEADER™
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 276 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2012-08-25] SpVgg Greuther Fürth vs Bayern Munich

Postby tflags » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:40 am

Commodore wrote:He had a weak game as a pivot in the game vs Fürth.


I thought he had a great game vs Fürth. They almost got no serious SOGs and their advances forward were a joke.
Kimmich
Kimmich - Thiago - Kimmich
Kimmich -- Kimmich
Kimmich -- Hummels -- Boa --Kimmich
Kimmich with Gloves
User avatar
tflags
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 8956
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:41 pm
Location: Around the world... in 80 days.
National Flag:
Ecuador
Has thanked: 813 times
Been thanked: 2851 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: [2012-08-25] SpVgg Greuther Fürth vs Bayern Munich

Postby Firefox1234 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:45 am

Commodore wrote:He did play CAM vs Madrid twice, and he delivered big time.

He had a weak game as a pivot in the game vs Fürth.

I don't expect him to perform as either when fielded in the other role. I honestly don't expect much from him as a pivot. I want to see him as a #10 and there I expect great things from him and am usually not disappointed.

If everything goes according to plan, he'll have plenty of opportunities to play CAM in the future with Javi at pivot and him maybe rotating with Müller, Shaqiri and the other multi-talents we have up front. Kroos can play a mean left wing as well by the way.


He cud sit the bench also since Muller play well there last game and Shaqiri looked like he cud even take the full time job at AM all preseason....IMO Kroos is to slow and doesnt offer the same skill sets as most modern AMs, i think he shud be groomed to take up Schweinstiger's mantle since he has the creativity and vision as a CM
Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
User avatar
Firefox1234
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 14032
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:42 am
Location: USA
National Flag:
Kenya
Has thanked: 4668 times
Been thanked: 2974 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: [2012-08-25] SpVgg Greuther Fürth vs Bayern Munich

Postby Commodore » Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:00 pm

tflags wrote:
Commodore wrote:He had a weak game as a pivot in the game vs Fürth.


I thought he had a great game vs Fürth. They almost got no serious SOGs and their advances forward were a joke.


That was hardly Kroos' merit though. Now if he keeps a team from having chances that actually tries attacking once in a while, I'm listening.

His job vs Fürth was to link the defense with our attack and he didn't do that because he let himself get pressured and lost a lot of balls due to it. In general he was fairly indecisive when it comes to buildup play which is his main job when replacing Schweinsteiger in the offensive part of the double pivot. We have Gustavo and you can say about him what you will, but defensively we really don't have to worry about anything against a team like Fürth when we have Gustavo on the pitch (hell, we don't have to worry about much with him on the pitch vs Real Madrid).

Kroos' role was buildup, buildup, buildup, and especially in the first half he had big problems filling that role. He did a little better once Fürth was forced to open up a bit due to being down a goal, but we absolutely NEED someone like a 100% fit Schweinsteiger, or hopefully Javi Martínez who manages to create something from the pivot position against deep playing park-the-bus teams. Kroos can do that if he has an exceptional day, but more often than not he's struggling when played to deep.
"There are two things I am afraid of: War and Oliver Kahn."

-Mehmet Scholl
User avatar
Commodore
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 918
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:41 pm
Location: GREAT LEADER™
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 276 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2012-08-25] SpVgg Greuther Fürth vs Bayern Munich

Postby thebigbug » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:15 am

Kroos' role was buildup, buildup, buildup, and especially in the first half he had big problems filling that role.


I dont really agree; even if you don't exactly get wowed by him, his passing was tidy that match. Kinda like Joe Allen at Liverpool; you won't notice him making all those short passes that keep possession but it tells in the stats
User avatar
thebigbug
Woah, this feels cool!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:45 am
Location: USA
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 5 times
Gender: Male

PreviousNext

Return to Bundesliga

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests