You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

[2013-08-27] SC Freiburg vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the German Bundesliga matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:30 pm

SC Freiburg will win
0
No votes
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Bayern Munich will win
16
100%
 
Total votes : 16

Re: [2013-08-27] SC Freiburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby Jorge » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:40 pm

I feel it is more about the system than the players that were on the field. This same line up with a different tactical approach (in essence being more vertical) would have provided the goals and would have kept them away from our area.

Only time will tell if it is A or B but one of these two things are happening:

A- The team has not adapted to Guardiola's idea yet. The way I see it Guardiola is keeping most of JH's system in place except how the back is set up with the 2 Centerbacks two high on the field, in particular when the team has possession Schweinsteiger is the deeper player.
B- Guardiola's system will never work in Germany when in recent years Football is more direct and vertical.

If I have to take a guess A is happening right now and things will improve overall but I do not have a good feeling about it and B is a bigger factor with a few coaches more than capable of using the space that Bayern gives on the back. Many draw parallels between this Bayern team and Pep's Barca, I see more and more of Van Gaal's Bayern throughout the games with the only difference that we have better players now, comes the game like yesterday's with B players and it can get very Vangaalish.

BTW, we were having a discussion with some substance about possession and a friend of mine did a simple exercise on this game, instead of clocking possession as time when a team has the ball (oficially 74-26 yesterday), he used a stop watch to count possession on the opponent's half regardless of what team has the ball and the number changed significantly: Bayern 57- Freiburg 43. As some of you said, it was annoying all that passing around our own box. I call it: Tiki-Kaka if you know what I mean.
User avatar
Jorge
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1515
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:32 pm
Location: Fort Lauderdale, USA
National Flag:
World Trade Organization
Has thanked: 106 times
Been thanked: 1042 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2013-08-27] SC Freiburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby AvatarX » Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:42 pm

Agree. Didn't show stats but Neuer must have been very high in the passes list...
"You can live to be a hundred if you give up all the things that make you want to live to be a hundred."
User avatar
AvatarX
Assistant Admin & World Cup 2014 Prediction Game Winner
Assistant Admin & World Cup 2014 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 7985
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:42 pm
Location: Metaverse
National Flag:
Anonymous
Has thanked: 752 times
Been thanked: 884 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: [2013-08-27] SC Freiburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:54 pm

That's a very interesting observation Jorge.
Super Bayern! Super Bayern! Hey! Hey!
User avatar
FCBayernMunchen
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 31099
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 8757 times
Been thanked: 7352 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: [2013-08-27] SC Freiburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby MoFattal » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:00 pm

MUTU wrote:Yes this is what I felt. Dante was looking shaky,

quaazi wrote: In fact it seems that Dante was the worst player in the defense... a pretty alarming trend.

FCBayernMunchen wrote:I forgot to mention, Dante has been making too many mistakes recently. Is it time to bench him for a while?

YlonenXabi wrote:I agree with some users here about Dante. It's like he doesn't seem interested in the game. Not giving his 100%

Badger wrote:The other alarming thing was Dante playing considerably below the level he played last year.


Image
User avatar
MoFattal
2011/12 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 11043
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:48 am
National Flag:
Lebanon
Has thanked: 2496 times
Been thanked: 2314 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: [2013-08-27] SC Freiburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby Der Bomber » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:13 am

In all fairness, Dante was paired with Contento, Rafinha & Van Buyten. Perhaps he was trying to do too much.
User avatar
Der Bomber
Yeah, now I'm talking!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:53 am
National Flag:
Canada
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 106 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2013-08-27] SC Freiburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby Badger » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:18 am

Jorge wrote:...

BTW, we were having a discussion with some substance about possession and a friend of mine did a simple exercise on this game, instead of clocking possession as time when a team has the ball (oficially 74-26 yesterday), he used a stop watch to count possession on the opponent's half regardless of what team has the ball and the number changed significantly: Bayern 57- Freiburg 43. As some of you said, it was annoying all that passing around our own box. I call it: Tiki-Kaka if you know what I mean.


You have made some very interesting points there, Jorge.

The one about the proportions of play in each half of the pitch was of particular interest to me. I think that there are a lot of factors which need to be considered before any clear conclusions about Bayern’s possession in their own half could be drawn from those stats.

One of the main factors, I think, is something that is an undesirable side effect of Guardiola’s possession game. Because Bayern maintains a high line and floods the other half with midfielders, it often turns the opponents into appearing like park-the-bus defences, even though the opponents weren’t really trying to play that way. The opponents’ half gets very cramped and cluttered, and space is difficult to find. Indeed, we could even say that space is no longer naturally occurring and must be created: some countermeasures are needed to relieve that cramped situation. At times, these countermeasures take the form of playing the ball to and fro in the Bayern half, so that the opposing strikers and midfielders ripple forward, freeing up the space and creating openings which Bayern can then exploit. There are other countermeasures too: players do a lot of running off the ball to create space, sometimes dribble purely to draw an opponent out of position, rather than to get past him, sometimes concentrate play on one side and then play a long pass to the other flank, and much more.

Another of the main factors, I think, is the risk of passing the ball forward in circumstances where possession might be lost. Often, when the defenders pass along the back to each other, a glance at the nearest midfielders will show us that the midfielders are not well positioned for a pass or are being closely guarded by the opponents. The idea then is that a few passes at the back may give the midfielders the opportunity to shake off the opponents just enough to receive a better pass.

And, of course, there are a few occasions when the defenders are really just faffing about, but I think that such aimless play is relatively rare.

You’ve given me a bit of food for thought, however, and this is something I’ll look more closely for in forthcoming games where Bayern have high possession stats.
"Wherever that man went, he went gratefully."
--------- Attributed to Seamus Heaney ---------
User avatar
Badger
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 929
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:23 pm
Location: Northern Ireland
National Flag:
Northern Ireland
Has thanked: 590 times
Been thanked: 680 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: [2013-08-27] SC Freiburg vs Bayern Munich

Postby Firefox1234 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:42 pm

Badger wrote:
Jorge wrote:...

BTW, we were having a discussion with some substance about possession and a friend of mine did a simple exercise on this game, instead of clocking possession as time when a team has the ball (oficially 74-26 yesterday), he used a stop watch to count possession on the opponent's half regardless of what team has the ball and the number changed significantly: Bayern 57- Freiburg 43. As some of you said, it was annoying all that passing around our own box. I call it: Tiki-Kaka if you know what I mean.


You have made some very interesting points there, Jorge.

The one about the proportions of play in each half of the pitch was of particular interest to me. I think that there are a lot of factors which need to be considered before any clear conclusions about Bayern’s possession in their own half could be drawn from those stats.

One of the main factors, I think, is something that is an undesirable side effect of Guardiola’s possession game. Because Bayern maintains a high line and floods the other half with midfielders, it often turns the opponents into appearing like park-the-bus defences, even though the opponents weren’t really trying to play that way. The opponents’ half gets very cramped and cluttered, and space is difficult to find. Indeed, we could even say that space is no longer naturally occurring and must be created: some countermeasures are needed to relieve that cramped situation. At times, these countermeasures take the form of playing the ball to and fro in the Bayern half, so that the opposing strikers and midfielders ripple forward, freeing up the space and creating openings which Bayern can then exploit. There are other countermeasures too: players do a lot of running off the ball to create space, sometimes dribble purely to draw an opponent out of position, rather than to get past him, sometimes concentrate play on one side and then play a long pass to the other flank, and much more.

Another of the main factors, I think, is the risk of passing the ball forward in circumstances where possession might be lost. Often, when the defenders pass along the back to each other, a glance at the nearest midfielders will show us that the midfielders are not well positioned for a pass or are being closely guarded by the opponents. The idea then is that a few passes at the back may give the midfielders the opportunity to shake off the opponents just enough to receive a better pass.

And, of course, there are a few occasions when the defenders are really just faffing about, but I think that such aimless play is relatively rare.

You’ve given me a bit of food for thought, however, and this is something I’ll look more closely for in forthcoming games where Bayern have high possession stats.

I wasnt sure if i was the only one who noticed it but that was something that hit me half way through this game, Freiburg looked like they werent going to budge but when they saw Neuer getting those back passes the forwards decided to bite and it did help move Bayern up the field. Im not a fan of complete possession football but when its being used like that i can respect it since the goal is to push the ball forward and attack the opposing team. Those are some great points Badger! =D>
Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
User avatar
Firefox1234
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 14032
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:42 am
Location: USA
National Flag:
Kenya
Has thanked: 4668 times
Been thanked: 2974 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Previous

Return to Bundesliga

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests