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[2017-04-04] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the German Bundesliga matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:00 pm

TSG 1899 Hoffenheim will win
1
17%
It will end in a draw
1
17%
Bayern Munich will win
4
67%
 
Total votes : 6

Re: [2017-04-04] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby Alduin » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:40 pm

It was a bad game overall, poor chemistry between the players and inexperienced players playing with Coman and Sanches on the pitch at the same time.

I agree that we need another #10 like James to keep up in these games and phase out Robbéry while our talents grow.
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Re: [2017-04-04] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:45 pm

MUTU wrote:Things are going to get nasty...

Player Ratings


Best player Alonso
the worst
Vidal Coman Sanches
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Re: [2017-04-04] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby Coman » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:47 pm

Maybe.. Maybe... This lose is a good thing. Player will increase their level and motivation even more. This defeat put players feet on the ground.
Bayern 3-3-3-1 build-up under Heynckes :
Neuer - Boateng Hummels Thiago - Kimmich Vidal Alaba - Robben Müller James - Lewandowski
Neuer- Boateng Vidal Hummels- Kimmich Martinez Alaba- Robben James Ribéry- Lewandowski
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Re: [2017-04-04] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:55 pm

#12 wrote:
Lukas wrote:Sorry, I know we're Bayern and every defeat is disappointing, but, meh. :|

No more injuries too.


Well, we've not yet won on Saturday as well, we're losing momentum before the most important game of the season and if we're unlucky we're only 7 ahead on Sunday - and advancing against Real is no sure thing at all...
Not trying to be overly pessimistic, but a draw would've tasted wayyyyy better...


Ah, momentum and form. The footballing myths I absolutely hate the most, right after "statistics means something".
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Re: [2017-04-04] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby Firefox1234 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:05 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:
#12 wrote:
Lukas wrote:Sorry, I know we're Bayern and every defeat is disappointing, but, meh. :|

No more injuries too.


Well, we've not yet won on Saturday as well, we're losing momentum before the most important game of the season and if we're unlucky we're only 7 ahead on Sunday - and advancing against Real is no sure thing at all...
Not trying to be overly pessimistic, but a draw would've tasted wayyyyy better...


Ah, momentum and form. The footballing myths I absolutely hate the most, right after "statistics means something".

Agreed! A match is decided by the football played on that day not football that was played last week... =D>
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Re: [2017-04-04] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby Manchu » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:11 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:
Ah, momentum and form. The footballing myths I absolutely hate the most, right after "statistics means something".


Statistics mean something, but it's just 99% of the statistics today, including goals scored*, suck and aren't very good measurements of a player's performance, and people interpret them to say stuff that they simply don't.

*For example, Robert Lewandowski is certainly one of the best players in the world and is a brilliant finisher, among many other things. However, he only scores as often as he does because he plays in front of one of the best teams in the world which is very good at moving the ball forward and creating chances for him, yet people obsessively focus on the number of goals he's scored. He scores a huge proportion of Bayern's goals nowadays, but the Bayern of 2012-13 managed to score just as about as many or more goals than this season with not a single player scoring more than 15% of them because the tactics of the team gave many different players, not just the forwards, the chance to score.
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Re: [2017-04-04] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby fpaz » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:40 pm

wherever
Last edited by fpaz on Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [2017-04-04] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:44 pm

Manchu wrote:Statistics mean something, but it's just 99% of the statistics today, including goals scored*, suck and aren't very good measurements of a player's performance, and people interpret them to say stuff that they simply don't.

*For example, Robert Lewandowski is certainly one of the best players in the world and is a brilliant finisher, among many other things. However, he only scores as often as he does because he plays in front of one of the best teams in the world which is very good at moving the ball forward and creating chances for him, yet people obsessively focus on the number of goals he's scored. He scores a huge proportion of Bayern's goals nowadays, but the Bayern of 2012-13 managed to score just as about as many or more goals than this season with not a single player scoring more than 15% of them because the tactics of the team gave many different players, not just the forwards, the chance to score.

Well if 99% of football statistics suck, how could they mean something? :P

In any case, I'm sorry but nothing will convince me statistics will ever be a good measure of players. At most, It's used by people like us, if not journalists and analysts who love to talk about football, which for the most part is fine. Even if they are to be used as indicator, it's superficial. It waters down a sport played with a combination of legs, brains and coaching to individual digestible numbers. It's intrinsically flawed. Comparing players in different teams, for example. They don't play the same opponents or with the same players. They have different coaches, with different tactics and different ideas of how the roles of players in a given position should be. Hell even two centrebacks in the same team are likely to be given different instructions. Too many independent variables to do a controlled measurement. I doubt we would ever have any real use for them, apart from being online talking points.

I will say that a set of statistical data can be used as a nice summary of a match, it's good for evaluating one performance, case-by-case. A high number of interceptions a player made is indicative of his involvement, yes. A heat map can indicate which players were weaker. But an elite coach will never look at statistics when deciding on which players to buy or play, clubs send scouts for that very reason. Nor would an elite coach look at an excellent statistical performance from the last game and employ the exact same tactics for his next. Statistics can be refined, but will never win over judgment. If I've watched a player multiple times and formed an opinion on him, statistics won't change whatever I think of that player.

Post-match analyses, yes. Individual assessment of a player's performance, sure. Comparison of players, no. Measurement of a player's intrinsic mental and technical abilities, no. Decision-making, absolutely not.
Last edited by Dumbledore7 on Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [2017-04-04] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby kod2600 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:47 pm

There is a first time for everything I guess. :coffee:
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Re: [2017-04-04] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:51 pm

Say all you want confidence means a lot in this game and quite a few players must've lost it today... That's what I call momentum...
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Re: [2017-04-04] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:54 pm

#12 wrote:Say all you want confidence means a lot in this game and quite a few players must've lost it today... That's what I call momentum...


Lewandowski, Javi, Hummels, Robben, Ribery, Alonso, Alaba - massive elite players, big egos, lost confidence? Renato and Coman might, actually I'm sure they did, but they're not playing against Real.
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Re: [2017-04-04] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby rthebest » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:23 pm

Chill out guys it is just a defeat can happen to any team. Yes they played poorly in the first half but I would be worry if they perform badly against BVB on Saturday.
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Re: [2017-04-04] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby zozon » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:36 am

ROFL at some "fans" in here claiming Bayern losing momentum... just before a CL quarter against Real :lol: :lol: :lol:
How someone can still put BL and CL in the same sentence with all the motivation that separates them is beyond me.

P.S Fell asleep sometime before the HT (which I NEVER do when there is a Bayern game involved). Says a lot about my expectation of the game. Guess some players felt the same.

edit - About the Real game: I expect a Ramos yellow and them being without Varane & Ramos @ home is surely 2 goals for us.
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It's shaped like a sword. Because that's how formations work. We will only be beaten if Atletico form a rock. We will beat them if they form paper tho.
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Re: [2017-04-04] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:09 am

ROFL at some "fans" here blahblahblahing and still devoting their sorry little lives to my posts...

Dumbledore7 wrote:
#12 wrote:Say all you want confidence means a lot in this game and quite a few players must've lost it today... That's what I call momentum...


Lewandowski, Javi, Hummels, Robben, Ribery, Alonso, Alaba - massive elite players, big egos, lost confidence? Renato and Coman might, actually I'm sure they did, but they're not playing against Real.


Well, I hope you're right... Either way I don't think another defeat on Saturday would be very good for us...
And while I understand part of the habit, I don't think a professional should waste a game the way we did especially in the first half...
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Re: [2017-04-04] Hoffenheim vs Bayern Munich

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:59 am

First thing I saw this morning the moment I opened the door of my apartment was : a car # plate with these letters TSG

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