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[2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the German Bundesliga matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:30 pm

Hamburger SV will win
1
6%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Bayern Munich will win
17
94%
 
Total votes : 18

Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby YlonenXabi » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:08 pm

AvatarX wrote:Boateng is a decent RB and was a decent fullback with NT during WC. Just because he is better CB than RB, that doesn't mean he is horrible RB by any means.


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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby Mr.S » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:45 am

& You keep repeating the same things & then call out others????

Firstly Alaba was not a failed experiment,he was 16-17 & was never going to break in at that age. He was played in a variety of positions from LB to LW to CDM to see which fits him most. He was never going to break into any position

The other issue is that when I say Boateng is the most horrible RB,& this is for you Avataar,it is maybe a slight exaggeration. What I meant that he is the most Horrible RB among all big teams. Ofcourse he aint as bad as Lell. I cant remember a single "bayern Standard" game from Lell.

Anyways Boateng cant play a RB because the way modern Football is going you cant have a Full-Back who cant attack. That kills the Wing. I wont compare Nt's with CLubs. Clubs in general have a Much Stronger teams than NT & they play differently. I am sorry to say but Germany's wing play is pretty mediocre. They are probably the Best team in the world ATM,but Boateng + Podolski was not the best Wing in the world. It did its job because There are no 2 Lahm's in Germany.

Anyways coming back to Lahm. I think his defensive skills are very average as LB,as a matter of fact he lost 12 of the 15 tackles last match. That is Horrible. Against Hannover he was torn apart & made to look like an amateur,against Austria even Alaba time & again made him look like amateur. It is said but Lahm as LB is probably not as good as Coentrao or Marcelo at RM.

Lahm is a winger's delight,super Attacking & always there to receive a pass & make crosses/passes. But Lahm at RB was amazing. He was Balanced. He was an awesome defender & ATTACKER. I felt he was better than Alves & he was the MOST Complete RB in the world. He went back to the left because Bayern could not fund the Coentrao Transfer.
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby eliasov » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:45 am

in almost all big teams they play with diffensive Fullback and an offensive one ! look to Barca : they alves - Abidal , Real Madrid : Ramos-Marcelo/coentrao , Man utd : they have Evra who's a tank in defence , chelsea has : Ivanovic and cole !! BOA is like Abidal he's a great diffensive Fullback and he's a must because he's playing behind Robben who never returns to deffend .

and why people wants to bench Mueller and you never talked about Robben , for me he's the biggest Flop this season and he's not the Robben 2009/10 anymore , his problems with injuries are getting even worst and he's playing just to avoid injuries ...
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby AvatarX » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:11 am

eliasov wrote:and why people wants to bench Mueller and you never talked about Robben , for me he's the biggest Flop this season and he's not the Robben 2009/10 anymore , his problems with injuries are getting even worst and he's playing just to avoid injuries ...


I have to agree in general that Robben this year is far inferior than Robben last year (or even more than the year before). On the other hand, he has the class to change games, so I would give him a slight advantage over Muller.

IMHO benching Muller for 1-2 games and use him as a sub will do him good. If by then Robben did not do anything exceptional and continue to avoid going for the ball to avoid injuries, (while Muller shows as sub good things), we could try something else.
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby Mr.S » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:25 am

eliasov wrote:in almost all big teams they play with diffensive Fullback and an offensive one ! look to Barca : they alves - Abidal , Real Madrid : Ramos-Marcelo/coentrao , Man utd : they have Evra who's a tank in defence , chelsea has : Ivanovic and cole !! BOA is like Abidal he's a great diffensive Fullback and he's a must because he's playing behind Robben who never returns to deffend .

and why people wants to bench Mueller and you never talked about Robben , for me he's the biggest Flop this season and he's not the Robben 2009/10 anymore , his problems with injuries are getting even worst and he's playing just to avoid injuries ...

I dont think so. I think he is been average but NO one can succeed in his position. Not even Messi,with boateng & Tymo around him. So that his completely not Robben's fault & he cant be blamed.

The last game with Rafinha maybe he could have played better & maybe the game with Koln as well. Dortmund he was rushed into & Villareal he had two brilliant passes.

But if you look at Muller,His Performances with everything around him at both positions,CAM & RW has been horrible. As a matter of fact his performances have been such that he would not even have made it any BL side,not even Aufsburg. Had he not been a Golden Boot Winner & a Home Grown he would probably have seen Sold. At this point of Alaba deserves to be a Sub infront of Muller,as does Olic, and even Usami deserves a proper chance.

I dont know if on form alone Muller deserves to even be on the list of substitutes when all players are fit. But by his repuatation he probably should get a chance as a SUB. You cant compare Robben with Muller,there is 2 Level of Quality Difference. Robben is on par with Messi at peak FORM & Muller will never get there. He just does not have the talent.

Besides his injuries are not getting worst. Even with his injuries,he had 10-15 matches this season. He had 14 Goals & 14 Assists last season in 18 matches & I doubt anybody in the world apart from messi has those stats. Other than that he has been sliding & even tackling so the comment he is trying to save injuries is pretty ridiculous
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby Mr.S » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:32 am

The other issue is Full-Backs. Well Ramos is an extremely aggressive Full-Back. As is Marcelo. But Ramos is playing CB nowadays. Madrid have experimented in the RB from Coentrao(Super Aggressive FB) to Altintop(Medio playing as FB) to Lass(DM playing RB) & Arbeloa(Proper RB slightly defensive). But none of them are really CB's & as defensive as Madrid. We & Madrid are different. We are the most Wing Dependent Team in the world & have the 2 best wingers.

Barca are also completely different. There is much less Wing Play. They whore our possession & their width comes from guys like Alves. Most of their Attacks originate from Central Mid-field. Anyways even then they have played Maxwell who can attack & Abidal,a Solid Defensive FB but even he can attack a bit. Boateng is 0 when attacking.

MU dont have any DM's to cover. They play a 4-4-2 or a 4-4-1-1. It is quite obvious that they wont play such aggressive FB's. Their & our style is different. Evra is SHIT defensively,he literally got torn apart times & again. He bombs up a lot. & nowadays they play Rafael who is another Super Aggressive FB.

Chealsea play Boswinga who cant defend & is Super Aggressive & Ashley Cole attacks all the time. Even Ivanovic when he used to play RB used to bomb up & down the flank. Besides Chelsea have very little width & play totally different. They use a Sturridge at RW who is actually a Striker.
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby AvatarX » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:42 am

Mr.S wrote:Evra is SHIT defensively,he literally got torn apart times & again. He bombs up a lot


Sometimes it's really difficult to understand you...He bombs up a lot? How?

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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby Mr.S » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:38 pm

Dude have you watched Evra defensively??? Recently??? He is a shadow of his former self. He is Finished. Evern last year's CHL I thought he was average. He does go on a lot of overlaps. He is the new Ashley Cole,goes forward & cant trace back & cover his defensive duties. Getting owned by Skillful wingers. He is nowhere near as good as he was.
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby eliasov » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:42 pm

Mr.S wrote:
eliasov wrote:in almost all big teams they play with diffensive Fullback and an offensive one ! look to Barca : they alves - Abidal , Real Madrid : Ramos-Marcelo/coentrao , Man utd : they have Evra who's a tank in defence , chelsea has : Ivanovic and cole !! BOA is like Abidal he's a great diffensive Fullback and he's a must because he's playing behind Robben who never returns to deffend .

and why people wants to bench Mueller and you never talked about Robben , for me he's the biggest Flop this season and he's not the Robben 2009/10 anymore , his problems with injuries are getting even worst and he's playing just to avoid injuries ...

I dont think so. I think he is been average but NO one can succeed in his position. Not even Messi,with boateng & Tymo around him. So that his completely not Robben's fault & he cant be blamed.

The last game with Rafinha maybe he could have played better & maybe the game with Koln as well. Dortmund he was rushed into & Villareal he had two brilliant passes.

But if you look at Muller,His Performances with everything around him at both positions,CAM & RW has been horrible. As a matter of fact his performances have been such that he would not even have made it any BL side,not even Aufsburg. Had he not been a Golden Boot Winner & a Home Grown he would probably have seen Sold. At this point of Alaba deserves to be a Sub infront of Muller,as does Olic, and even Usami deserves a proper chance.

I dont know if on form alone Muller deserves to even be on the list of substitutes when all players are fit. But by his repuatation he probably should get a chance as a SUB. You cant compare Robben with Muller,there is 2 Level of Quality Difference. Robben is on par with Messi at peak FORM & Muller will never get there. He just does not have the talent.

Besides his injuries are not getting worst. Even with his injuries,he had 10-15 matches this season. He had 14 Goals & 14 Assists last season in 18 matches & I doubt anybody in the world apart from messi has those stats. Other than that he has been sliding & even tackling so the comment he is trying to save injuries is pretty ridiculous



wow , i couldn't disagree more , 1st Robben and Mueller are different type of players , Mueller is Less spectacular than Robben but as work rate he's much better than him , i can agree that Mueller is out of form and maybe he deserves to be benched but saying that he does not have the Talent is Just ridiculous ...
and talking about the stats ?? ok than Mueller with being out of form he still can manage to be the top assister in the league (Feel free to check ::http://www.soccerway.com/national/germany/bundesliga/2011-2012/regular-season/players/) .

the main problem is that Mueller still have to adapt on Jupp's tactics , Just like Toni Kroos was a Flop last season Under Van Gaal , and i've seen a lot of opinions doubting his talents and a lot of people wanted to sell him !

About next Match maybe it wouldn't be bad to bench Mueller but let's see with which Line-up we can go ?
Alaba on Left ? for how long didn't he start in thin position ,it'll be a big Gamble especially that we always struggle in Hamburg and giving the fact that the Table is currently a potential 4 Horse race , I wouldn't take any risk by starting Alaba as LB or even Pranjic .
The best solution for now is to play Gustavo as CB and BOA on the right ...
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby Mr.S » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:01 pm

Work Rate & Defensive Duties?? Is that the bench mark for an Offensive Winger???

He will not be benched because he does not have the talent but because of his form which is horrible. I said he does not have the talent to be compared to Robben.

Dribbling,Speed,Vision,Long Shots,FInishing,Curve on the ball,Receiving Passes,Performance in BIG games,1-2's & combinations,crosses. In every respect Robben is much better.

BTW he does not have the highest Assist. Toni Kroos has 12,Ribery 11 & Muller 11.

How many games did he play. Out of 19 BL games,8 CHL including Qualifiers & 3 Pokal Games,well that makes it 30 Games, I am sure he has played atleast 25-26 Games odd. 11 in 25/26 games is not a lot. Add to it he has only 4 Goals in 25 Odd Matches. NOT Good enough. He has 1000+ Minutes Plus without a Goal.

Look he is our Home Grown & we all want to succeed but he does not have the technical skills to be as skillfull as Robbery for a winger So I doubt he will make it there. But he is an option there & CAM. He has 2 spots to fight for & he will get plenty of time as SUB to prove himself. Spots should not go for free or out of charity.
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby eliasov » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:25 pm

Mr.S wrote:Dude have you watched Evra defensively??? Recently??? He is a shadow of his former self. He is Finished. Evern last year's CHL I thought he was average. He does go on a lot of overlaps. He is the new Ashley Cole,goes forward & cant trace back & cover his defensive duties. Getting owned by Skillful wingers. He is nowhere near as good as he was.


as Overall Evra is world class , and Ashley cole this is not right thread to discuss this issue i think but you're talking like cole and evra even worst than a Joke like Braafheid ...
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby eliasov » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:36 pm

here is an example about the difference Btw Mueller under Heynckess and Mueller under Loew in the NT
just for doubters and haters to know who is the Typical German worrior Thomas Mueller ....I know that the Dutch NT's defence is a Joke but still ...

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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby AvatarX » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:42 pm

OK, I think we are way off topic. Please discuss tactics in general 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread:
general-bayern-f13/2011-2012-tactics-and-formations-t6922-270.html
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby armbrust » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:12 pm

Ribery: We gonna win against hambourg... I think 3:1... What do you think?
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby ronnie98 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:48 pm

eliasov wrote:
and why people wants to bench Mueller and you never talked about Robben , for me he's the biggest Flop this season and he's not the Robben 2009/10 anymore , his problems with injuries are getting even worst and he's playing just to avoid injuries ...


If Robben is not the same as 09/10 season then he is the biggest flop???!! the 09/10 season was when Robben could have been easily compared with messi. Even now he is playing average but not bad and far from a flop ; while muller is ruining a lot of runs with his awkward passes near the box. Muller deserve to be benched even before schweini returning. It would have been Alaba-ribery-robben
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