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[2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

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What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:30 pm

Hamburger SV will win
1
6%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Bayern Munich will win
17
94%
 
Total votes : 18

Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:22 pm

dambun wrote:I would put Tymo at RB, and keep Boateng at CB.... We need to maintain our central defenders for a while IMO... they need to get a better understanding of their games and finally stabilize our defense...

Seems like the prediction master struck again! =D>

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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby lau03143 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:59 pm

MUTU wrote:
lau03143 wrote:
MoFattal wrote:Based on yesterday's game, the bench was better Alaba and Olic played better than most of our starters.


We're becoming too predictable.

Jupp needs to start changing things about, else we're going to fall short on all fronts.

Hopefully this will act as a wake up call to him.

And not just changing players around, but also the formation should be less rigid. He should experiment with variations of our formation so as to have a small element of surprise.


Definitely, every successful team needs to be adaptable, and know when to change.
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:13 pm

Player ratings by goal.com (higher is better)

Manuel Neuer 6.0
Had a relatively quiet afternoon save-wise, but had to be alert off his line once or twice to stop HSV on the break. Could do nothing about Sala’s perfectly placed volley.

Jerome Boateng 6.5
On more than one occasion, he showed good teamwork and awareness to cover for Tymoshchuk as the makeshift full back had gone walkabout. Was often fond as the last man back for the visitors against his former club, but it was his weak header in the buildup to HSV’s opener that kept the ball in the danger zone.

Philipp Lahm 5.5
It was his spot of ball watching that left Sala with the freedom of the Imtech Arena to volley home the opening goal. Made some strides in the second half to support the attack, but his lapse in concentration was ultimately key in denying the Bavarians maximum points.

Holger Badstuber 6.0
A mixed game for the center back as he was often on point when his team sat back to defend deep in numbers, but always looked stretched when HSV looked to catch his team out on the counter attack.

Franck Ribéry 6.0
Dominated the ball in the offensive third of the pitch, but his task was ultimately in vain in what could only be described as a frustrating outing. Too often he lacked the final flourish to his play, as the attention of the HSV defense, the lack of synergy from his teammates and his own judgment prevented his endeavor from coming off. Also wasted one or two good positions from set pieces.

Arjen Robben 6.0
Took a long while to get into the game, with his first half performance indicative of someone who may not yet be back to full fitness or form. Had one testing long range drive fisted away by Drobny and even though he was a greater threat after the interval, he did not quite have the killer instinct of old.

Bastian Schweinsteiger 6.5
Disciplined in midfield as always, making Bayern tick with his incisive passing. Was not overly influential over proceedings, but gave a solid showing and was rarely at fault.

Toni Kroos 5.5
Cleared a goal-bound header off the line in the opening minutes of the game, but apart from a few tidy passes, was not really able to make a mark in the game. Withdrawn just after the hour mark.

Anatoliy Tymoshchuk (Flop of the Match) 5.0
The Ukrainian had a questionable afternoon after he was handed a start at right back. Found a lot of time to support Robben in the offensive third of the pitch, but was found wanting in his own half, as surrendered his position one too many times. Taken off after an hour.

Thomas Müller 6.0
His goal drought continues as he failed to really find top gear on the evening. Showcased a few nice flicks and one touch passes to link with his teammates, but ultimately could not provide what was required. Had one of the game’s best chances with a low shot from the corner of the box that was tipped wide by Drobny.

Mario Gomez 5.0
Just one of those days for the Bundesliga top scorer, who rarely had the time or space to get a clear sight on goal. He fluffed his lines on his one genuine opportunity, firing over the bar when put through on goal. Saw yellow for a striker’s challenge on Westermann in the first half.

• Substitutions
David Alaba 5.5
Came on with half an hour to go and made a superb interception to deny HSV a sure goal on the break. On the other hand, he put his team under pressure as he was also beaten with consummate ease by Min Son on another counterattack.

Ivica Olic 6.5
Made his appearance in the 64th minute and within seven minutes of his arrival, had put his team level. It was a scrappy goal, a tap in from four yards out, but it made all the difference as Bayern did not come away from the match wholly empty handed.

Source: http://www.goal.com/en-us/match/60973/h ... er-ratings
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:18 pm

goal.com wrote:Mario Gomez 5.0
Just one of those days for the Bundesliga top scorer, who rarely had the time or space to get a clear sight on goal. He fluffed his lines on his one genuine opportunity, firing over the bar when put through on goal. Saw yellow for a striker’s challenge on Westermann in the first half.


It was the other way round. Westermann saw the yellow card in the first half :)
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby lau03143 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:48 pm

After watchuing the game back, my main concern is our defence.

I know that Tymo was a makeshift RB, but it wasn't just him. All the defenders positional play was pretty poor. There was too much of a gap between CB's, you had Boateng taking Throw-Ins on the left hand side (which is ridiculous since he's RCB).

Lahm got sucked in too often, which eventually cost us our first goal.
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:49 pm

lau03143 wrote:After watchuing the game back, my main concern is our defence.

I know that Tymo was a makeshift RB, but it wasn't just him. All the defenders positional play was pretty poor. There was too much of a gap between CB's, you had Boateng taking Throw-Ins on the left hand side (which is ridiculous since he's RCB).

Lahm got sucked in too often, which eventually cost us our first goal.

True, but you have to note that the starting backline had never played together before. It was not a surprise that they lacked team chemistry.
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby lau03143 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:43 pm

Yeah, hopefully it's temporary... Hopefully no more injuries or suspensions.
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby dambun » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:54 pm

MUTU wrote:
dambun wrote:I would put Tymo at RB, and keep Boateng at CB.... We need to maintain our central defenders for a while IMO... they need to get a better understanding of their games and finally stabilize our defense...

Seems like the prediction master struck again! =D>

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And I was wrong... :( I knew Tymo wouldn't much help the attack... But I thought we would be safe, defensively, with him... On the contrary, It was a disaster both ways... We should have used Lahm at Right and Alaba on the left... This is what I think now, obviously...
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby dambun » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:08 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:Evryone here has very different opinions. I think that Müller adds nothing to this team with his current form. He is playing as CAM and I can't remember anything good produced by him in the last few games. Just look at Kagawa in Dortmund and then compare him to our current Müller. He needs to play much better if he doesn't want to be benched.

I couldn't disagree more... He was by far our best player... Also it was his shot that led to the corner, and then again his shot that led to Olic's goal...

And the comparison is irrelevant.... Kagawa plays in a team that values fast counter attacks... they offen take the opponents' defense off-guard.... they move a lot and do combos... thats what Mueller is best at... If he was at Dortmund he would have been like the player of season or something....

On the contrary... we lose all our counter-attack opportunitie... It's either because Ribery does his idiotic flirting with the ball (thus losing the time, if not also the ball)... or because Robben ignores the other players' movement most of the time... or because Gomez does not combine well, and recently does not move enough as well... We play very immobile... very predictable... and we always give the opponent lots of time to reorganize their defense.... How on earth is Mueller going to succeed with these tactics... Not only Mueller, the whole team would fail soon if we neglect these basic tactical concepts...

----
I know I know... We were unlucky not to win in Hamburg... But that shouldn't blind us on our ongoing problems... They were the side that conceded 5 goals from BVB a couple weeks earlier!!!
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby YlonenXabi » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:53 pm

And I also disagree

Robben is having an unselfish season. He always cuts inside and tries to make through passes (he is world class in that). You barely see him trying to dribble. Well, he had actually two selfish moments in the game when he shot from outside the box and almost score. I was SO happy that he didn't pass the ball to Müller because he created more danger with his shot than Müller in 2012

Ribery is the most unselfish player. He had a bad game and he looked tired (maybe it was because that back problems he had), but he was always looking for a partner to make his famous one-two's. Problem is that no partner was near him, so he had to do that idiotic flirting with the ball as you say

Now... which is the player who had to be near Ribery/Robben/Schweini/Kroos getting involved in the team play and making quick passes/combos ?

:roll:

That's Kagawa in Dortmund, That's Özil in Real Madrid but that's NOT Müller in Bayern. As someone mentioned Müller is more a second striker. I don't think he is a good CAM. I prefer him on the right wing as he plays with Germany. Kroos is a much better option for the CAM spot. Even Ribery said so
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby The Spyware » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:09 am

hey I am someone :lol:

I also hope that our players take a look at reality
They are leaving in a delusion that we are the strongest team ever and we can win any match and it's just normal that we win and other drops points

I dunno , I always here the same words from each of our players and always sense that , and In fact we most of the times fail and then after we win the match after , the players say the same words and again we fail and so on
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby dambun » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:38 am

So now it's all Mueller's fault.... he's nowhere near no one, never available... right??... Otherwise Our other players always run a lot and create a lot of space for themselves and others... right?...!

Mueller has been our most-running man for the 3rd match in a row now.... He's always moving into spaces and combining with others... You are judging him by his late 2011 form I believe.... Back then, I was one of the first to criticize him.... But Since after the winter break, he has been one of our best performers.... It's so unnoticed, just because our whole team is in failure mode...

While I agree that Robben's selfishness has been decreased recently (I suspect because he's not up to his former speed), and I agree "when" he tries the trough passes, he's extremely good at it... he's not doing it quite enough... we lose some very good opportunities because of this, while his shots are not as precise as they used to be.... His shots has been mediocre recently, nowhere near what they used to be....

Ribery is also an unselfish player, I agree... What I'm pointing out is that he is tactically dumb!... He is always so close to the line that he does not have enough space to maneuver... It's just too easy for the opponents to completely isolate him with 2 defenders... one who is ready to run with him back... and another who closes the space for his passes... As a result, he either passes the ball back to Lahm at the back, or he does one of those flirting movements, which only succeeds 1 in a billion!
His most effective times of the game are those, in which he receives the ball in the middler parts of the pitch.. and actually combines with others...

YlonenXabi wrote:That's Kagawa in Dortmund, That's Özil in Real Madrid but that's NOT Müller in Bayern.

Come on! Both Dortmund and RM play quite fast in attack... while we are like an old locomotive!... Look at Gladbach.... Even Hanke and Hermann shine in such a fast attacking style... And Mueller is a player just suited for this... And this is exactly why he thrives for the NT but not in Bayern....

----
And come on!!! Robben's shots are/were great... It's good to have this from time to time.... But It's not good to sacrifice teamplay for this... no team has ever won anything by such individual efforts... you might win a few battles that way, but you'll certainly lose the war.... Let's not defend such strategies....
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby quaazi » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:53 am

It has to be said that the stats do back up the claim that Müller's form has improved. Like Dambun said, his work rate is tops. He also won a lot more duels than Robbery did (in fact over twice of what Robben did) v Hamburg. His heatmap is a lot more varied (it was clear that he spent a lot more time helping out on the flanks too).
The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:17 am

quaazi wrote:It has to be said that the stats do back up the claim that Müller's form has improved. Like Dambun said, his work rate is tops. He also won a lot more duels than Robbery did (in fact over twice of what Robben did) v Hamburg. His heatmap is a lot more varied (it was clear that he spent a lot more time helping out on the flanks too).

I am looking forward to Breno playing so we can check out his HEATMAP too :P
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Re: [2012-02-04] Hamburger SV vs Bayern Munich

Postby MoFattal » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:30 am

MUTU wrote:
quaazi wrote:It has to be said that the stats do back up the claim that Müller's form has improved. Like Dambun said, his work rate is tops. He also won a lot more duels than Robbery did (in fact over twice of what Robben did) v Hamburg. His heatmap is a lot more varied (it was clear that he spent a lot more time helping out on the flanks too).

I am looking forward to Breno playing so we can check out his HEATMAP too :P


A Breno joke strikes once again :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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