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[2013-02-23] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

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What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:30 pm

Bayern Munich will win
20
100%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Werder Bremen will win
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 20

Re: [2013-02-23] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby envagyokazapad » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:40 pm

MUTU wrote:
MUTU wrote:
lau03143 wrote:Even though he got 2 goals, I thought Gomez was relatively quiet. His touch is almost always heavy and he slows down our play. But that's not the type of player he is, he's a poacher, as his goals showed!

Gomez is having the best season for a striker in FC Bayern history!

Total mins: 538 minutes
Total goals: 7
1 goal every: 76.9 minutes
Total assists: 3
1 assist every: 179.3 minutes

(Stats taken from all competitive minutes for FC Bayern)

If he played every single Bundesliga minute and scored at this rate, he would equal Gerd Mueller's haul of 40 BL goals.
If he played every single Champions League minute and scored at this rate, he could score up to 17 goals!

gomez stats.png


BTW, I challenge anyone to find me a single player in Bundesliga history who had a better goals-per-minute ratio in a season for his club across all competitive matches, and who has played for at least 400 minutes in that season (in order to be fair). :twisted:

In order to help compile these stats, I made this spreadsheet (which you can download as .xlsx and edit)


You really can't draw that kind of conclusion based on 538 minutes. I mean, I'm sure you can find 538 minutes from last season, during which he scored more than 7 goals?

I love Gomez but the truth is he's just far, faaar off his best right now...I hope he'll get there, but saying he's having the best season for a striker in FCB history is just wrong.
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Re: [2013-02-23] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby michel » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:30 pm

A Bayern B-team took to the pitch on Saturday at the Allianz Arena, showing no mercy for their Northern rivals with a 6:1 scoreline despite a slow start. More commentary: Bayern plays a goal symphony, 6:1 over Bremen
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Re: [2013-02-23] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby sch0ll7 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:43 pm

great scoreline I must say...

Btw...Gomez was a little sluggish if you ask me...his goals were made by others...1st one was Ribery`s goal...he just took it away from Ribery.

Robben was quite good.

Gustavo is not as solid as he was before...or when playing next to Schweini.

Btw..

This is LAHM`s best season every if you ask me...he assists in almost every game now...it is like he spent a lot of time training his crossing...because we all know he was not known for his crossing:)
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Re: [2013-02-23] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby AdepT » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:02 pm

Oh MUTU! Haven't you heard the quote "You will See Only what you Want to See"? :|

DISCLAIMER : Before I start, I would like to tell I am not a Gomez hater and would like to see him stay. Also, Mandzukic deserves his spot in starting 11.

Now let's talk about EPL(Don't hate me for this). Chicarito has far better goals per minute ratio than van Persie, Rooney, Aguero, Dzeko, Podoslki, Giroud etc. Does that make make him a better player than all others? If your answer is YES, then let's stop at that.
Le Fondre of Reading comes next and has a G-to-Min ratio of less than 100. Now he plays for a team that is 19th in the league and that is a very very impressive number for his scenario. But he has scored most of them coming in as a SUB.

You have to take into consideration that the ratio is better not because Gomez has been performing exceptionally great. It is because he has been SUBBED into games which we were winning and we end up scoring another through Gomez. That SUBBING in is a VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY BIG FACTOR that has manipulated the ratio you're so proud about. If Gomez had not been injured and Mandzukic would have been subbed in his place, he'd have literally SHAT on Gomez's current stats. WELL, ONLY IF that had been the case, of course.

Let's have look at Mandzukic's figures after winter break.
Total mins: 411 minutes
Total goals: 7
1 goal every: 58.7 minutes (At this rate, he'd have 14 more goals if he plays for 75 mins in every remaining Buli game. So a total of 29 in BuLi alone at the end of season in his first year at Bayern. How about that? :P)
Total assists: 1
1 assist every: 411 minutes ( Does this figure seem absurd to you? :? You can't always base everything on figures.)

Mind this that this is his first season and you could cut some slack for his first half performance which was more than good enough but for the drought at the end of it. As for his performance in this half, he's been very efficient and you can't deny him the starting spot.

Also take into consideration that Mueller and Kroos have also taken up the goal-scoring responsibility and that is surely going to have an impact on a striker's number of goals scored. No team has two players scoring 40 goals in a season. It's always one and if somebody else increases his count from say 10-12 to 20, then it would surely decrease a striker's count. The goal-scoring responsibility is being shared far more evenly this time around than last season. Plus Mandzukic tracks back far more times than Gomez ever did. I couldn't find every detail like tackles made and others. But for sure I know this that Mandzukic's 'avg shot accuracy' is far better than Gomez's.

All of this was to state that Mandzukic has earned his spot and he deserves it. Just the same way I would have said for Gomez in the beginning that his performance of last season made him our No. 1 striker coming into this season. But he got injured and Mandzukic had to stand up and take his chance and he has done it properly.

As for all the 'IFs' surrounding Gomez being our best striker ever, I would humbly like to say that 'IF all 'IFs' were in a human's control, I'd ruling the galaxy.' I said IF. :D
Don't take it the wrong way. I would love for him to score 40, even 50 but until that happens, let's not tarnish Mueller's legacy by 'IFs' and 'Buts'.

It almost feels like an essay. :oops: :)
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Re: [2013-02-23] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby MUTU » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:11 pm

AdepT wrote:You have to take into consideration that the ratio is better not because Gomez has been performing exceptionally great. It is because he has been SUBBED into games which we were winning and we end up scoring another through Gomez. That SUBBING in is a VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY BIG FACTOR that has manipulated the ratio you're so proud about. If Gomez had not been injured and Mandzukic would have been subbed in his place, he'd have literally SHAT on Gomez's current stats. WELL, ONLY IF that had been the case, of course.

Very incorrect. Usually strikers complain about coming off the bench when the team is winning. The rest of the team would be controlling the game and just passing the ball around, without the urgency in the game as when the score is a draw. It's the total opposite of what you said. In fact, in the 3 full matches in which Gomez played this season, he got 2 scorer points in each.

Whichever way you try to twist the stats, Gomez is still the most prolific player we have this season. And with such prolificness he's beating the likes of Gerd Mueller. Until he's beaten he'll remain my favourite Bayern scorer :)

MUTU wrote:Chicarito has far better goals per minute ratio than van Persie, Rooney, Aguero, Dzeko, Podoslki, Giroud etc. Does that make make him a better player than all others? If your answer is YES, then let's stop at that.

Yes, let's stop here. For me he's better. But actually before I stop, I have a question for you:

Imagine a low cross across the face of goal that goes past the goalkeeper. There are 2 situations:

- Situation A: Player X is there at the right place at the right time and taps it in. Goal!
- Situation B: Player Y is badly positioned and is only able to retrieve the ball somewhere close to the corner flag. He dribbles past one opponent, two, three, four, goes past the keeper too, shoots.... oh, and it's wide.

Which player had the best action? If you answer Player Y, we'll agree to disagree permanently on this matter :)
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Re: [2013-02-23] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:25 pm

MUTU wrote:Imagine a low cross across the face of goal that goes past the goalkeeper. There are 2 situations:

- Situation A: Player X is there at the right place at the right time and taps it in. Goal!
- Situation B: Player Y is badly positioned and is only able to retrieve the ball somewhere close to the corner flag. He dribbles past one opponent, two, three, four, goes past the keeper too, shoots.... oh, and it's wide.

NOTE: This is only applicable when X =/= Torres. When player X = Torres, a third situation arises where he is at the right place at the right time and shoots it wide. :lol:
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Re: [2013-02-23] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby MoFattal » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:33 pm

^ and Gervihno.
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Re: [2013-02-23] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby MoFattal » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:35 pm

MUTU wrote:Imagine a low cross across the face of goal that goes past the goalkeeper. There are 2 situations:

- Situation A: Player X is there at the right place at the right time and taps it in. Goal!


You mean like this:



I'm sorry, but I love this video :mrgreen:
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Re: [2013-02-23] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby MUTU » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:56 pm

Well, embarassing misses happen to every great player. Gomez misses so little for Bayern that you actually had to fetch an example that happened years before he joined Bayern. Whereas for other 'great' German Bayern strikers, you only need to look at their last match for Bayern.



And before him we had the exceptional Makaay who also had his off days.

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Re: [2013-02-23] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby tflags » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:13 pm

MoFattal wrote:You mean like this:


That miss I think has been long forgotten after he scored a brace against that same team, on that very same venue. Second goal bringing a victory to his NT at the 89". Around the same time, if I remember correctly, he brought a 6-match scoring stat to 1.89 goals per game in non-friendly competitions.
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Re: [2013-02-23] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby MaCk0y » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:23 pm

To be fair to Gomez, the ball just jumped awkwardly cause of the pitch before it arrived at his feet. I think everyone would have had that happen to him in that same situation. What Gomez could have done more is from the second attempt. At least try to jump higher for the ball.
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Re: [2013-02-23] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby MoFattal » Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:09 pm

God dammit people, I only made that out of fun. I like the dude as much as you do (well, maybe half that, but still). Damn, you people are losing your sense of humor :|

P.S. this is the level of "arrogant bastardness" I like to see when it comes to important pre-game discussions ;)
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Re: [2013-02-23] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby AdepT » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:29 pm

MUTU wrote:Imagine a low cross across the face of goal that goes past the goalkeeper. There are 2 situations:

- Situation A: Player X is there at the right place at the right time and taps it in. Goal!
- Situation B: Player Y is badly positioned and is only able to retrieve the ball somewhere close to the corner flag. He dribbles past one opponent, two, three, four, goes past the keeper too, shoots.... oh, and it's wide.

Which player had the best action? If you answer Player Y, we'll agree to disagree permanently on this matter :)


GOALS whatever way they are scored - tap-ins, FKs, PKs or some by swerves/curves. They are what matter most in a game. Even a mentally retarded guy will tell you X is far better than Y.

What I'm saying is if it were July, Gomez deserved No.1 spot. But he got injured and Mandzukic has picked up greatly. Also, if Jupp would have started Gomez after winter break, I'd have been neutral because Mandzu was on 7 or 8 game drought. That is why we have 3 strikers. Perhaps because of match-fitness or some other reason, Jupp didn't start him and Mandzu has been exceptional coming into the second half of the season. Please note that in the second half, Mandzukic's g-to-m ratio is 58.7 mins. And I have utmost respect for Gomez's professionalism and of course his goals. The only question I have for you is with the form Mandzukic is in the second half, does he deserve to be benched only because Gomez played exceptionally good last year?
Plus you can't deny that he is more help defensively than Gomez.

As for player favoritism, I have nothing do with that. Gomez is your fav, Schweini is mine. Kahn/Klose are my idols. :D

About that unfortunate miss by Gomez, his technique was finally perfected by Mandzukic a game ago. :wink:
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Re: [2013-02-23] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby MUTU » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:09 pm

AdepT wrote:Please note that in the second half

You are taking limited, select data. Why are you not accounting for the first half of the season?

It's true, in this second half, Mandzukic has been better than Gomez (58.6 mins versus 75 mins), and if he continues at this rate then he fully deserves his #1 spot. However, taking into account the full season, Gomez has been better so far. Basically, Gomez is a better player but Mandzukic is in better form at the moment.

And one has to also point out at Mandzukic's poor CL form (1 goal in 296 mintes played). He's on the right track with a goal against Arsenal, let's hope he can continue.

AdepT wrote:Plus you can't deny that he is more help defensively than Gomez.

Gomez has often helped in defence, sometimes even acting as a central defender (eg against Real Madrid IIRC). I haven't seen Mandzukic defend that deeply yet.
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Re: [2013-02-23] Bayern Munich vs Werder Bremen

Postby quaazi » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:18 pm

MUTU wrote:You are taking limited, select data.


Stones and glass houses, mate.
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-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
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