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[2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Discussions on the German Bundesliga matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:30 pm

Bayern Munich will win
7
88%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
VfL Wolfsburg will win
1
13%
 
Total votes : 8

Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby kingbayern » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:45 pm

I don't want to be that guy cause I expect backlash but need Carlo out and one WC winger to replace Ribery.
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby James11 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:46 pm

Dusel wrote:If Carlo substitutes Ribery and Robben for Coman and James in the 60th and 75th minutes, Bayern get a 3rd goal and up the attacking tempo, and this forum is not going into meltdown. Sad part is that I think Carlo is afraid to sub Ribery off after his temper tantrum.

As far as I can tell, Ribery is only good for about 60 minutes of top division football against bottom of the table clubs nowadays. Unfortunately, in Ribery's mind he's still Champion's League caliber. He blasted over an open net today...


Exactly!

Coman and James deserved to play full match, but Carlo..
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:47 pm

Nobody is mentioning our lose marking in their second goal...
OK we were not playing champagne football (last Tue we did) but we were in control until that accident by Sven

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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby aterford » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:49 pm

It literally looks like we simply don't have a manager right now.

If I hadn't already seen Ancelotti on the sidelines chewing his gum every game, you could've told me we didn't have a manager this year and I'd probably believe you. Every game the same. 11 guys get sent out, seemingly given no instruction, and sometimes we get a result, sometimes we don't.
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:49 pm

Mueller comments
https://twitter.com/iMiaSanMia/status/9 ... 3712397312

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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby Element » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:50 pm

-Every time we play without a player behind Lewandowski, we suck badly.

-the last 2 games, we played with a player behind Lewandowski, so things went great.

-Today, our offensive section was a mess, the space between the midfield and Lewandowski was enormous, and the fact that Boateng. Hummels and Rafinha are our Ball contact leaders says it all

-in Didavi's goal, Rudy was covering Didavi but decided to stop following him after he entered the Box (probably was counting on Hummels to cover him), Hummels never took a look behind during the entire situation allowing Didavi to head it in freely.

-Rudy and Vidal are both great midfielders but should never start together without James or Thiago.

- Ancelotti either "Underrotates" the team or "Overrotates" it

-Ribery should get less playing time and should be used more as a super sub in the last 25 minutes
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby #12 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:50 pm

ramsej84 wrote:Nobody is mentioning our lose marking in their second goal...
OK we were not playing champagne football (last Tue we did) but we were in control until that accident by Sven

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Neither were we on Tuesday... The penalty helped us - as it did today btw, even more, cause we were harmless... They were dominating the game without possession...
Marking? Isn't that a coach's job as well?

Seriously: name one thing or player that got better in his tenure... Except for the youth academy, the weather, and his goal to feast on everything edible...
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby Dusel » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:56 pm

aterford wrote:Soft penalty.
Lucky deflection to second goal.
No decent subs until WAY too late.
No cohesion.
Players lost all over the pitch.
No creativity in any phase of the game.
No direction, no instruction, no motivation, no passion.

It's on the manager. Period.


Agreed on all the points.

The only issue is, will sacking Carlo on 22 September improve anything other than satiating the lust for his sacking?

At this point, all of the most viable long-term replacements are unavailable.

If Carlo is sacked tonight - or after the PSG match - then Sagnol will likely be caretaker until season end when Nagelsmann or Hasenhuttl can be transferred. I doubt if a coach like Tuchel will be hired at a club with egos like KHR and Uli. And Sagnol didn't exactly have a Nagelsmann-esque record as manager of Bordeaux.

So really, anyone asking for Carlo's head to roll at this point is asking for Sagnol as caretaker as far as I can see.

Firing Carlo before Christmas accomplishes nothing, since no replacement would be available.
Last edited by Dusel on Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby kingbayern » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:01 pm

tbh I would try with Tuchel we might need his tactical creativity
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby MoFattal » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:03 pm

Personally, I’d have no problem with Sagnol taking over. I’ve said that previously.
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby #12 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:05 pm

Dusel wrote:
aterford wrote:Soft penalty.
Lucky deflection to second goal.
No decent subs until WAY too late.
No cohesion.
Players lost all over the pitch.
No creativity in any phase of the game.
No direction, no instruction, no motivation, no passion.

It's on the manager. Period.


Agreed on all the points.

The only issue is, will sacking Carlo on 22 September improve anything other than satiating the lust for his sacking?

At this point, all of the most viable long-term replacements are unavailable.

If Carlo is sacked tonight - or after the PSG match - then Sangol will likely be caretaker until season end when Nagelsmann or Hasenhuttl can be transferred. I doubt if a coach like Tuchel will be hired at a club with egos like KHR and Uli. And Sangol didn't exactly have a Nagelsmann-esque record as manager of Bordeaux.

So really, anyone asking for Carlo's head to roll at this point is asking for Sagnol as caretaker as far as I can see.

Firing Carlo before Christmas accomplishes nothing, since no replacement would be available.


The shit we're seeing week in week out is happening without coach anyway... Just fire him and let the pigeons in the stadium do the coaching...
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:14 pm

Element wrote:-Rudy and Vidal are both great midfielders but should never start together without James or Thiago.

This
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby kingbayern » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:14 pm

tbh we got ripped off...though we would be playing dynamic direct football but we are playing like retired Sunday league players
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby aterford » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:15 pm

Dusel wrote:
aterford wrote:Soft penalty.
Lucky deflection to second goal.
No decent subs until WAY too late.
No cohesion.
Players lost all over the pitch.
No creativity in any phase of the game.
No direction, no instruction, no motivation, no passion.

It's on the manager. Period.


Agreed on all the points.

The only issue is, will sacking Carlo on 22 September improve anything other than satiating the lust for his sacking?

At this point, all of the most viable long-term replacements are unavailable.

If Carlo is sacked tonight - or after the PSG match - then Sangol will likely be caretaker until season end when Nagelsmann or Hasenhuttl can be transferred. I doubt if a coach like Tuchel will be hired at a club with egos like KHR and Uli. And Sangol didn't exactly have a Nagelsmann-esque record as manager of Bordeaux.

So really, anyone asking for Carlo's head to roll at this point is asking for Sagnol as caretaker as far as I can see.

Firing Carlo before Christmas accomplishes nothing, since no replacement would be available.


Dusel, I tend to agree with that. Obviously, I'm quite frustrated right now, as are many others. However, as I said a few weeks ago, I'm okay with giving Ancelotti until Winterpause at least. I think that's a plenty long leash. By then we should have a good idea of how things are going. At this point, if I'm in charge, I'd tell myself that Ancelotti is gone in December and now has the potential to "win back" his job by salvaging a good Hinrunde.
My conditions for sacking remain mostly the same. Elimination from Pokal vs RBL, early UCL exit, poor domestic performance - all grounds for removal. I'm trying not to overreact as we haven't really seen anything in the cups yet, but if we get knocked from the Pokal and PSG slaughters us next week - we have to start looking forward.

At the end of the day it comes down to these simple questions.

1. Going off the last year and a half - Do we believe that Carlo can "right the ship," so to speak? If yes, why? What has he shown that would make us believe that he's willing to change his approach, tactics, etc to get things right?
2. If we believe that Carlo cannot "right the ship," why keep him around? Of course, I'm sure we'd have to pay him out of his contract (unless there are some sort of clauses we don't know about, I guess), but what's the point in continuing to pay a guy for performing poorly? At the end of the day, it's basically the same as any business - if your performance is bad, you'll get fired. While the business might have to pay you a severance package, they don't have to keep you on the books while underperforming. Might as well take the short-term hit and get somebody new in there.
3. Would Sagnol or another "caretaker" manager do worse? I guess this is a two-part question, kinda. First off - depending on what position we're in, it might not matter. If we're out of UCL/Pokal by the winter - I don't think it really is too relevant. I'm of the mind that Sagnol would at least be able to keep us afloat in the BL (as Ancelotti himself has said, any coach can win the BL with Bayern with their hands in their pockets). If we're still active in all competitions, I suppose it warrants additional consideration. Perhaps there's some other more established manager out there we could bring in for 6 mos if we don't wanna keep Carlo. I'm not sure.

In whatever case - at this point, I feel like unless by some miracle we win the treble, Ancelotti has to be gone in the summer, no questions about it.
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby #12 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:26 pm

A CL exit? Are you kidding? Even if some non coach, let's say ME, was coaching them, they could not be eliminated in that joke of a group... If he really managed to do that he should never get work again and go live under a bridge... Pokal exit and more than 3 points behind the BuLi leader it is for me... Which, obviously, he will never accomplish...
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