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[2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

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What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:30 pm

Bayern Munich will win
7
88%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
VfL Wolfsburg will win
1
13%
 
Total votes : 8

Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby Pelin » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:28 pm

we gifted 2 points to Wob because of Ulreich and Rafinha. The first should have used both hands, The latter should have defended much better.

Also because of Carlo. We needed both Coman and James after 60th min, it's funny before their second goal, Martinez was about to come in.

in addition, playing both Robbery as starter is too much for us. Though Robben is still world class, Carlo should give James more playing time. While we should limit Ribery's playing time.

Regarding Tolisso, he needs to cover the spaces better.
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby aterford » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:29 pm

#12 wrote:A CL exit? Are you kidding? Even if some non coach, let's say ME, was coaching them, they could not be eliminated in that joke of a group... If he really managed to do that he should never get work again and go live under a bridge... Pokal exit and more than 3 points behind the BuLi leader it is for me... Which, obviously, he will never accomplish...


Haha, I wasn't clear, what I meant was something like an exit in first knockout round or something.
That being said if we lose to PSG and by chance drop points to Celtic in the following match I think things get pretty dicey. It's a very slim possibility at this point but I don't think a third place group finish is entirely out of the question.
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby MiaSanFCB » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:29 pm

Element wrote:-Ribery should get less playing time and should be used more as a super sub in the last 25 minutes


The days when he could have been a "super sub" are over, he shouldn't be more than a subsitute player who doesn't get much game time.
I don't like Coman, but he's clearly ahead of him right now and shoould start most of the games.
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby Roonzil » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:34 pm

We played our oldest possible line-up...only Kimmich was below the age of 27...
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby #12 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:58 pm

#12 wrote:"Things like this happen in football."


There it is, the ****'s doing it again:

https://mobile.twitter.com/FCBayernEN/s ... 6076747777

Well, of course, so he can stuff his belly tomorrow on said new day...
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby Dusel » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:28 pm

aterford wrote:
Dusel wrote:
aterford wrote:Soft penalty.
Lucky deflection to second goal.
No decent subs until WAY too late.
No cohesion.
Players lost all over the pitch.
No creativity in any phase of the game.
No direction, no instruction, no motivation, no passion.

It's on the manager. Period.


Agreed on all the points.

The only issue is, will sacking Carlo on 22 September improve anything other than satiating the lust for his sacking?

At this point, all of the most viable long-term replacements are unavailable.

If Carlo is sacked tonight - or after the PSG match - then Sangol will likely be caretaker until season end when Nagelsmann or Hasenhuttl can be transferred. I doubt if a coach like Tuchel will be hired at a club with egos like KHR and Uli. And Sangol didn't exactly have a Nagelsmann-esque record as manager of Bordeaux.

So really, anyone asking for Carlo's head to roll at this point is asking for Sagnol as caretaker as far as I can see.

Firing Carlo before Christmas accomplishes nothing, since no replacement would be available.


Dusel, I tend to agree with that. Obviously, I'm quite frustrated right now, as are many others. However, as I said a few weeks ago, I'm okay with giving Ancelotti until Winterpause at least. I think that's a plenty long leash. By then we should have a good idea of how things are going. At this point, if I'm in charge, I'd tell myself that Ancelotti is gone in December and now has the potential to "win back" his job by salvaging a good Hinrunde.
My conditions for sacking remain mostly the same. Elimination from Pokal vs RBL, early UCL exit, poor domestic performance - all grounds for removal. I'm trying not to overreact as we haven't really seen anything in the cups yet, but if we get knocked from the Pokal and PSG slaughters us next week - we have to start looking forward.

At the end of the day it comes down to these simple questions.

1. Going off the last year and a half - Do we believe that Carlo can "right the ship," so to speak? If yes, why? What has he shown that would make us believe that he's willing to change his approach, tactics, etc to get things right?
2. If we believe that Carlo cannot "right the ship," why keep him around? Of course, I'm sure we'd have to pay him out of his contract (unless there are some sort of clauses we don't know about, I guess), but what's the point in continuing to pay a guy for performing poorly? At the end of the day, it's basically the same as any business - if your performance is bad, you'll get fired. While the business might have to pay you a severance package, they don't have to keep you on the books while underperforming. Might as well take the short-term hit and get somebody new in there.
3. Would Sagnol or another "caretaker" manager do worse? I guess this is a two-part question, kinda. First off - depending on what position we're in, it might not matter. If we're out of UCL/Pokal by the winter - I don't think it really is too relevant. I'm of the mind that Sagnol would at least be able to keep us afloat in the BL (as Ancelotti himself has said, any coach can win the BL with Bayern with their hands in their pockets). If we're still active in all competitions, I suppose it warrants additional consideration. Perhaps there's some other more established manager out there we could bring in for 6 mos if we don't wanna keep Carlo. I'm not sure.

In whatever case - at this point, I feel like unless by some miracle we win the treble, Ancelotti has to be gone in the summer, no questions about it.


You nailed it precisely with point #3. Personally, I have already lost hope with Ancelotti and I am hoping for Nagelsmann or Hasenhuttl to take charge of Bayern next season.

However, if Bayern decide to fire Ancelotti too soon it could cause problems getting the proper long-term replacement coach.

One of the main reasons (as you mentioned) is do we really know if Sagnol will do better? Would Bayern get worse and slip back into the Europa League? Sagnol's Bordeaux side was bang average when he was manager.

If they settle for Tuchel they'd have to give him at least a 3-year deal. That'd rule Bayern out of the Nagelsmann and Hasenhuttl sweepstakes and leave them stuck with a coach who wasn't their 1st choice.
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby #12 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:44 pm

Bordeaux has always been bang average...

I mean seriously, a goat could win Bundesliga with that team... Doing nothing but stuttering... Making no sense... Feasting on the grass, getting fatter - so just like Ancelotti, except for the grass...
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby Dusel » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:04 am

#12 wrote:Bordeaux has always been bang average...


Yeah, you mean like that time they won Ligue 1 then topped a CL group that included (runners-up) Bayern and Juventus by 6 points the next season a few years before Sagnol was manager?

I mean seriously, a goat could win Bundesliga with that team... Doing nothing but stuttering... Making no sense... Feasting on the grass, getting fatter - so just like Ancelotti, except for the grass...


Totes. It's not like Dortmund are playing well or anything.

I mean seriously, it's clear Ancelotti is not doing a good job. But next match you will be blaming climate change on Carlo.
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby #12 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:16 am

Dusel wrote:
#12 wrote:Bordeaux has always been bang average...


Yeah, you mean like that time they won Ligue 1 then topped a CL group that included (runners-up) Bayern and Juventus by 6 points the next season a few years before Sagnol was manager?

I mean seriously, a goat could win Bundesliga with that team... Doing nothing but stuttering... Making no sense... Feasting on the grass, getting fatter - so just like Ancelotti, except for the grass...


Totes. It's not like Dortmund are playing well or anything.

I mean seriously, it's clear Ancelotti is not doing a good job. But next match you will be blaming climate change on Carlo.


So now exceptions are the general rule? By your logic, Carlo is doing a good job cause we were shit with Klinsmann, too... also a few years ago...

Dortmund are playing FAR better, way less vulnerable, way more dangerous... We had two decent games and could easily even have 5 points less... We're actually LUCKY his shit has us not in the second half of the table yet...
And I'm only blaming shit in him he actually did... Again: name one player that got better in his tenure... One...
Name one game HE won, be it through subs, tactics, masterclass gameplans or mere motivation... You won't find any...
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby Mani » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:50 am

Although Wolfsburg is very inconsistent, they have a good squad. If you sleep the second half, a team like this can do damage. I wouldnt be too worried about this, in some sense it's good that teams have started to play harder against us so our players dont take 3 points for granted. And regarding CL, there is no way Bayern go out in the group stage. I mean Celtic and Anderlecht would probably fight in the relegation battle in the BL
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby aterford » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:58 am

Mani wrote:Although Wolfsburg is very inconsistent, they have a good squad. If you sleep the second half, a team like this can do damage. I wouldnt be too worried about this, in some sense it's good that teams have started to play harder against us so our players dont take 3 points for granted. And regarding CL, there is no way Bayern go out in the group stage. I mean Celtic and Anderlecht would probably fight in the relegation battle in the BL


16th place last year and were 13th IIRC before today's point.

With the way things are going right now, teams that are fighting in the relegation battle in the BL are enough of a task for us already....so that doesn't say much re: Anderlecht/Celtic hahahah
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby spotman » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:44 am

We're gonna get embarassed by PSG and Ancelotti will be sacked. Watch. And i'm 99.9% a positive person, but Ancelotti doesn't fit with Bayern. I literally yawned throughout every match this year. Boring and ineffective.
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby Gugne » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:50 am

Carlo was the same with RM, he never do changes until 75-80 min (and no rotation neither).... despite the team's amazing performance in his last season, did not win anything because half were injured.

If he has sent James and Coman at 60, today's results would be different. Maybe even 3 on 1.
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby aterford » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:54 am

spotman wrote: but Ancelotti doesn't fit with Bayern.


This is what I think a lot of people fail to understand.

They say things like "Ancelotti has won the UCL three times," "he has managed big personalities fine in Madrid," "he has a winning track record," "he's better than Guardiola," "his teams take some time to find their form" and so on and so on.

But you know what? Simply....none of that matters, in regards to Bayern.

Let me run it down real quick:
-Previous success in one's career does not guarantee continued success
-Success at multiple clubs does not guarantee success at every club
-All personalities are different. Ronaldo, Ramos, Bale, Di Maria, Benzema, Marcelo, Pepe, etc -a lot of big egos on that team. But they are not the same people as Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski, Vidal, etc - success in managing one group of personalities does not guarantee success in managing another

I know I often come down pretty hard on Carlo and I don't mean it to be personal. I think Ancelotti is a likable enough guy, and of course I hope he does well. But he simply isn't a good fit at FC Bayern Munich. That's all. It's nothing personal. Ancelotti was a fine coach before he arrived in Munich. He may very well find a new club next year and do just fine there. I won't complain one bit. But it's just not working here.
We should be willing to admit this: it's okay to say that Carlo is a bad fit for Bayern while respecting the things he has done throughout his career and acknowledging his past successes. But we cannot afford to rest on Carlo's laurels. He's a bad fit for us, period.
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Re: [2017-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby tflags » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:55 am

Problem is these players that come in and get praised just because they had a great shot on goal last game around.

This is the second game Rudy is caught napping with an attacker getting ahead of him and scoring. And people around here call them the best DM since van Bommel.

Dude got half the passes (half!) of any of the CBs and we played pretty much without a regista until Tolisso showed up while earning (again) the worst rating for the night other than Ulcereich there at goal.

Then there's Muller. A player with a single brilliant touch (all night) to make us forget yet another invisible game of getting dispossed, misplacing 30% of his passes and no key pass whatsoever.

Luckyly for Muller there was Rudy otherwise he might have had to share the second worst performance on the evening on yet another night of horrors.
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