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[2015-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Discussions on the German Bundesliga matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:00 pm

Bayern Munich will win
5
83%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
VfL Wolfsburg will win
1
17%
 
Total votes : 6

Re: [2015-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby #12 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:22 pm

What's wrong with that particular statement?

You think winning one game makes up for **** up 5 or more? Being destroyed three times in the process?
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Re: [2015-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:44 pm

#12 wrote:What's wrong with that particular statement?

You think winning one game makes up for **** up 5 or more? Being destroyed three times in the process?


#12 it is time for some cease fire after yesterday's second half. At HT I was already saying to myself that we were failing the first test but then Lewa came in and everything changed. Now he have a tricky away match vs Mainz , Zagreb and the BIG match... coming up. So let us be patient
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Re: [2015-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby kst » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:58 pm

MaCk0y wrote:
kst wrote:
MaCk0y wrote:Thanks to Lewa's limelight, it hides the emberassment Neuer caused to himself and Bayern. He didn't need to come out or at least kick the ball out but he tried to be a hero. Keep it simple!


yes, Neuer made a mistake and we almost paid for that but sayin thet Manu should keep it simple...i cant agree. "Simple" is definitely not the word to describe the way Neuer is and plays. His adventurous nature is what made him the best. Would you like him to change? Would you like him any other way? I say he deserves a bit of freedom when it comes to such decisions just because he does so much more good than bad.
should costa, ribery, robben stop trying one-on-ones because they sometimes fail? that would mean holding them back.

By simple I meant clearing the ball instead of trying to dribble on the half way line. You can't compare this to the freedom of Costa and Roberry dribbling. The goal was empty.


i know what you meant, i only made that comparison to point out the fact that some creativity is always welcome and maybe shouldnt be restrained. its what makes them better
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Re: [2015-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:00 pm

RedQueen wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote:It certainly doesn't seem like criticising our first half performance was the reason for, ah, #12's head being bitten off.

No? Seemed to me like it.


No, at least that's not what ticked me off. It was the denial to just simply admit the overcriticism afterwards.
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Re: [2015-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby Bayernbazi » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:15 pm

As usual we seem to be caught up in another Guardiola mystery - irrelevant of how it came about, yesterday it was a great result for everyone's morale and I hope that this match sparks Lewa to become the goal machine that he was at BVB and he is with Poland !

However there is still that tedious streak where Guardiola is slow to react when something is clearly not going well with the initial selection - yesterday it was immediately clear to everyone that Bernat was a liability, is it possible that neither Pep nor his staff noticed this ? so why persist for a whole half before reacting ? is it so difficult to admit a flaw ? I hope that Pep and his staff do not throw the first half notebook in the euphoria of the win!
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Re: [2015-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:26 pm

#12 wrote:
-snip-


No it's fine really, no need to justify your argument. I wanted to put more emphasis on Neuer not being criticised at all, as opposed to too much criticism on the coach.

And about Neuer's play - I do agree that he needed to be there, and the best decision is to clear it. However he simply **** that one up (technically, not by decision making) and I can't believe it didn't get any substansial mention before I brought it up. If we want to criticise on a high level, fair enough, I don't see the problem with it. But at least we should be fair, and as much as Pep needs to somehow play a perfect 90 minutes every game, the world's best goalkeeper shouldn't screw up like that.
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Re: [2015-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby #12 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:42 pm

ramsej84 wrote:#12 it is time for some cease fire after yesterday's second half. At HT I was already saying to myself that we were failing the first test but then Lewa came in and everything changed. Now he have a tricky away match vs Mainz , Zagreb and the BIG match... coming up. So let us be patient


Didn't mean to fire at anyone - but I actually took some shots here and I just wanted to know why... Both sides presented valid arguments, so I think it's wrong to dismiss either one as plain stuoid...

Dumbledore7 wrote:No, at least that's not what ticked me off. It was the denial to just simply admit the overcriticism afterwards.


And I gave reasons...
Again: this is not about being right for me... I'd be more than happy if I was wrong... But the thesis that it takes him AGES to realize certain things, the fact that he frequently chooses a wrong lineup at the beginning(sometimes only for the sake of being individual it seems) and the observation that most games against top-opposition look exactly the same are not exactly far-fetched - and not merely my individual perception... I don't see one good half - where he had some, but IMHO minor influence - ringing in a turn of eras...
There's a big game coming up in 10 days... And we won't always have an opponent who is THIS happy to keep the door open for a comeback...
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Re: [2015-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby kst » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:56 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:
#12 wrote:
-snip-


No it's fine really, no need to justify your argument. I wanted to put more emphasis on Neuer not being criticised at all, as opposed to too much criticism on the coach.

And about Neuer's play - I do agree that he needed to be there, and the best decision is to clear it. However he simply **** that one up (technically, not by decision making) and I can't believe it didn't get any substansial mention before I brought it up. If we want to criticise on a high level, fair enough, I don't see the problem with it. But at least we should be fair, and as much as Pep needs to somehow play a perfect 90 minutes every game, the world's best goalkeeper shouldn't screw up like that.


i believe most of the ones criticising Pep are doing so after being disapointed by his previous decisions aswell. not only judging by this game alone. also i believe it is a bit easier to make mistakes on the pitch then it is on the sidelines. the game feaver can have a great impact on decision making. as we all know neuer can make mistakes aswell but the fact that he rarely does them and mostly in non-vital games, is a factor when judging him.
as someone else here said, you cant judge him for one action after he contributed to the world cup triumph with similar actions.
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Re: [2015-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby #12 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:10 pm

@ Dumbledore: you're right!
Although I don't think he has to be "perfect", too... I was quite happy with the Pokal Dortmund game (I wasn't here back then, so you don't know that...) except for the **** up pens and the Muller substitution (for the same reason mainly...)... That was closer to what I imagine: we were bad for like 10-15 minutes - happens... Shame we conceded then... But we played fine for 75 or 80 minutes, and then again on overtime, we only failed to score... And no, that's REALLY not his fault! ;)

Also, kst is right: the thing which annoyed me the most its that the first half looked exactly the same to me again... So maybe it's true my judgement is not just based on his "performance on the day" but including other factors...

We can basically agree that he changed his concept (which I consider a step forward) and had influence on the outcome - I'm just not sure on how big that influence actually was yet...
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Re: [2015-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby pyrasur » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:17 pm

quaazi wrote:
#12 wrote:And even if it were all due to him: ONE swallow (alone) does not make a summer... ;)

oh jesus cartwheeling christ I'm out


Jesus my abs are killing me after this one!
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Re: [2015-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby nm462272 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:53 pm

It's interesting how different the tones of some communities can be, especially after a game like this.

/r/fcbayern and here... why so different?

also, RedQueen... people didn't disagree with #12 about the 1st halfs poor performance... they were disagreeing about his comment that Pep never learns nor changes his tactics.
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Re: [2015-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby Tedesco » Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:06 pm

nm462272 wrote:It's interesting how different the tones of some communities can be, especially after a game like this.

/r/fcbayern and here... why so different?

also, RedQueen... people didn't disagree with #12 about the 1st halfs poor performance... they were disagreeing about his comment that Pep never learns nor changes his tactics.

Reddit is mostly american, here is european.
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Re: [2015-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby nm462272 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:11 pm

Tedesco wrote:
nm462272 wrote:It's interesting how different the tones of some communities can be, especially after a game like this.

/r/fcbayern and here... why so different?

also, RedQueen... people didn't disagree with #12 about the 1st halfs poor performance... they were disagreeing about his comment that Pep never learns nor changes his tactics.

Reddit is mostly american, here is european.


Tedesco, are you on any German-language Bayern forums? I would imagine the tone is somewhere in between the ultra-positive reddit comments, and the more critical BayernForum. At least that has been my experience speaking with friends and family in Munich...
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Re: [2015-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby RedQueen » Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:28 pm

nm462272 wrote:Tedesco, are you on any German-language Bayern forums? I would imagine the tone is somewhere in between the ultra-positive reddit comments, and the more critical BayernForum. At least that has been my experience speaking with friends and family in Munich...


Not Tedesco, and not a registered user there but:

http://www.transfermarkt.de/bundesliga-saison-2015-2016-6-spieltag-fc-bayern-munchen-vfl-wolfsburg/thread/forum/10/thread_id/1928463

The equivalent to the matchday thread here. End of first half discussion is around page 30. Somewhere there I read that in one of the postmatch interviews Müller admitted that by the end of the first half, they saw a defeat coming.
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Re: [2015-09-22] Bayern Munich vs VfL Wolfsburg

Postby Tedesco » Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:44 pm

nm462272 wrote:Tedesco, are you on any German-language Bayern forums? I would imagine the tone is somewhere in between the ultra-positive reddit comments, and the more critical BayernForum. At least that has been my experience speaking with friends and family in Munich...

I don't actively participate, but I read the Transfermarkt.de forums. The tone way closer to this forum than reddit IMO.
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