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[2014-03-29] Bayern Munich vs Hoffenheim

Discussions on the German Bundesliga matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:30 pm

Bayern Munich will win
8
100%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
TSG 1899 Hoffenheim will win
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 8

Re: [2014-03-29] Bayern Munich vs Hoffenheim

Postby Grimnir » Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:58 pm

MUTU wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:
MUTU wrote:You can't play a high defense line with the slowest possible back four (and GK) at your disposal. Surely the tactical genius that is Pep should have known this basic rule, no? It was a bit suicidal.

Contento: slower than Alaba
Rafinha: slower than Lahm
Dante: slower than Boateng
Starke: slower than Neuer
van Buyten: slower than.... OK let's not go there.

Exactly. It's not the high line that is dangerous (although it has its risks). It's the players chosen today, who do not fit the tactics. If you compare how we defend today with how we defended with LVG, it's obvious that the issue is not the tactic itself, but the players. Today's defensive lineup resembled LVG's time a lot: no Neuer, no Alaba, Van Buyten. Heck, maybe it was even worse, considering Lahm wasn't at RB.

The players are part of the team and under contract, the tactics are not. It was the tactics that needed to change, not the team selection. This team selection could have been a result of an injury crisis during an important match. Would Pep have played with that tactics in such a scenario?


While I agree with you about adapting the tactics I still find myself thinking Starke for this match was not the smartest choice. I was fine with the decision about the defensive lineup, though again agree with you about the tactics...I just think Starke's reaction time as well (2nd and 3rd goals especially) played a large role even so.
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Re: [2014-03-29] Bayern Munich vs Hoffenheim

Postby envagyokazapad » Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:26 pm

Grimnir wrote:
envagyokazapad wrote:
Grimnir wrote:Imo it doesn't matter, Hoffenheim also have a great attack force which it wouldn't have been difficult to predict Starke wouldn't be enough against. It seems Guardiola was just hoping that Hoffenheim's own terrible defense would be enough to balance the scales, but the truth is even with just having Neuer in net the outcome would likely have been quite different and we'd probably have finished 3-1.

On another note as far as others' comments on van Buyten's performance...thing is in the away leg against United we don't really have another option (at least imo). For me Martinez is equal to van Buyten or worse and on top of that is definitely more of a liability than van Buyten since he's begun diving and fouling so much to compensate for being such a poor CB and getting caught out often. It's a difficult situation with Dante missing the first leg, but I'm pretty confident we'll make it through. We often play well in England and United have just been piss poor this season.


To be honest, while I'm not too happy with Martinez as a CB, DVB has been disastrous under Pep, because like MUTU said he's just too slow. You can't play Pep's system with DVB which is why I'd definitely choose Martinez over DVB.


It probably depends on perspective but I see Martinez as having a similar problem though. The last Arsenal match was an example of that. Is he really an improvement? Trying to find the footage but a few times Martinez was caught out (thinking especially of being caught on a breakaway against I forget which Arsenal player that he fouled pointlessly even though Neuer was taking care of it) and at least twice in the match resulted in a needless foul or dive from his part. It's too bad because I really liked him beside Basti, but he's seems to be turning into a dirty player as a result of underperforming as CB. So on top of being also slow and getting caught out I just see him as doubly a problem because of increased risk as far as potential penalties or being carded. And it just seems to keep getting worse every time he plays.


He's been inconsistent for sure, but what I really meant is that DVB has been consistently bad. One of the games Martinez played in, he was actually pretty good (don't remember which tbh), so there's hope. DVB just doesn't have the quality anymore though. And from what I can see, we will most likely keep playing Martinez as a CB :? so we might as well just keep giving him playtime there (when we are forced to play somebody else rather than our preferred starting CBs).
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Re: [2014-03-29] Bayern Munich vs Hoffenheim

Postby ottackon » Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:33 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:It was a great game to watch.

So we draw 1 game after how many wins? Pep made a good decision with rotating. We are champions and now we are aiming for CL. Starke deserved some playing time and so did Contento [who is the most limited left back out there...ok maybe Braafheid is worse :)]. DVB also needed to get some playing time so we could rest Boateng and Martinez.

Imagine if Alaba, Martinez, Boateng or Neuer got injured today? Everyone would write about how could Pep be so stupid and play them when he could just rotate as we are already champions.

This was our weakest lineup this season and we still managed to play some great football...after all the players celebrated and probably got drunk 3 days ago. You could see that because Hoffenheim players were fresher at the end and could still press like crazy.

Most of our starters will be fresh on tuesday and that is all that matters.

Plus it is a wake-up call for all of us...so we can see that we are not unbeatable if we are not giving 100%.

You're absolutely right.
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Re: [2014-03-29] Bayern Munich vs Hoffenheim

Postby sch0ll7 » Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:41 pm

It is silly us talking about tactics...when other coaches like André Villas-Boas [who is a top coach btw] are asking Guardiola for instructions. I bet almost half the coaches out there have analyzed Peps tactics over the years and tried to learn something new.

So I really think he knew what he was doing today but maybe because so many bench players were on the field today they just couldnt implement that tactic or did not understand eachother on the field.

It is not just about that Neuer is a better goalie...but he is a leader and he coordinates his defenders through the match. They know how to play together.

Our goalie and our whole defensive line were playing together for the first time today.

All of you are just looking too much into this game. All you need to know is this was our weakest starting lineup this season. We were 3:1 up and had some clear cut chances after that...to seal this game. We would definitely win by 3 goals if we had our best players on the pitch...and probably left the field with another clean sheet.

This is silly...but all the players were probably more worried not to get injured like Thiago did...so they can play in Manchester :)
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Re: [2014-03-29] Bayern Munich vs Hoffenheim

Postby lau03143 » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:02 pm

So annoyed... The site I normally watched the games on was down today, so missed the game.

Every cloud has a silver lining though... I was able to sleep off a hangover!

I don't think I missed much though by the sound of it. But, if we're being honest a low level performance was always likely after winning the league on Tuesday!
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Re: [2014-03-29] Bayern Munich vs Hoffenheim

Postby Grimnir » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:03 pm

envagyokazapad wrote:
Grimnir wrote:
envagyokazapad wrote:To be honest, while I'm not too happy with Martinez as a CB, DVB has been disastrous under Pep, because like MUTU said he's just too slow. You can't play Pep's system with DVB which is why I'd definitely choose Martinez over DVB.


It probably depends on perspective but I see Martinez as having a similar problem though. The last Arsenal match was an example of that. Is he really an improvement? Trying to find the footage but a few times Martinez was caught out (thinking especially of being caught on a breakaway against I forget which Arsenal player that he fouled pointlessly even though Neuer was taking care of it) and at least twice in the match resulted in a needless foul or dive from his part. It's too bad because I really liked him beside Basti, but he's seems to be turning into a dirty player as a result of underperforming as CB. So on top of being also slow and getting caught out I just see him as doubly a problem because of increased risk as far as potential penalties or being carded. And it just seems to keep getting worse every time he plays.


He's been inconsistent for sure, but what I really meant is that DVB has been consistently bad. One of the games Martinez played in, he was actually pretty good (don't remember which tbh), so there's hope. DVB just doesn't have the quality anymore though. And from what I can see, we will most likely keep playing Martinez as a CB :? so we might as well just keep giving him playtime there (when we are forced to play somebody else rather than our preferred starting CBs).


Funny, I also remember this one decent match from Martinez...and sad when this one performance stands out like a sore thumb :lol: You're right though, we likely will keep playing him as a CB so might as well deal with it I guess. I'm one of those optimistic fans when it comes to Badstuber so I hope that the problem can be solved next season with hopefully what will be a return to form on his part. Van Buyten hasn't said much about retiring until after 2014-15, but we would still benefit from one new CB this summer. Would really solve our main problem.
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Re: [2014-03-29] Bayern Munich vs Hoffenheim

Postby MaCk0y » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:27 pm

Woah! What is all this negativity against Starke ? IMO he had a good game considering he almost always plays in a second string team and didn't have any fault in the 3 goals. Totally agree with Scholl7's points. Starke made some good saves and even did a couple of Neuer headers outside the penalty area. Worst player was Contento. He didn't manage to make one good cross.
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Re: [2014-03-29] Bayern Munich vs Hoffenheim

Postby tflags » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:12 pm

Caught badly out of position on that set piece and the first goal could have been avoided. Starke was not up to scratch today I'm afraid.
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Re: [2014-03-29] Bayern Munich vs Hoffenheim

Postby MaCk0y » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:29 pm

Out of Position ? It was just a great, precise free kick. He was on the other side of the post because the other half was covered by the wall just like any other keeper would be and the first goal resulted from a one vs one situation. There was no guarantee Neuer would have saved that either.
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Re: [2014-03-29] Bayern Munich vs Hoffenheim

Postby Rauntšik » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:35 pm

Who cares about that draw, we are champions anyway.
The worst thing is, that Thiago got injured and I think he has a very important role in our team and would have been vital against ManU with his good passing and vision.
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Re: [2014-03-29] Bayern Munich vs Hoffenheim

Postby YlonenXabi » Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:11 am

We are champions, we have a 213213123 point lead over Schalke and Dortmund and we have a big game at Old Trafford in a few days. I just don't know what's wrong with some of you.

We have a big squad and some players like Starke, Contento, Pizarro or Van Buyten deserve to get playing time. It's not like if Pep had fielded all those guys against Arsenal or something like that. This was an irrelevant game and I'm happy to see those guys playing.
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Re: [2014-03-29] Bayern Munich vs Hoffenheim

Postby YlonenXabi » Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:13 am

btw Mackoy, you must be a huge Starke fan :D you're always wanting him to play in this kind of irrelevant games or even in the DFB Cup :twisted:
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Re: [2014-03-29] Bayern Munich vs Hoffenheim

Postby MaCk0y » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:07 am

YlonenXabi wrote:btw Mackoy, you must be a huge Starke fan :D you're always wanting him to play in this kind of irrelevant games or even in the DFB Cup :twisted:


Starke for the DFB cup final! :D

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Re: [2014-03-29] Bayern Munich vs Hoffenheim

Postby alfonso » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:07 pm

I don't know if Thiago is a big factor. He has been very discrete against Arsenal, while he played a bigger role in the Bundesliga.
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Re: [2014-03-29] Bayern Munich vs Hoffenheim

Postby Kevinx67 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:04 pm

So funny how one tie in how many wins brings out the football coach in all of us. Thiago won't be missed in the line up. Still should of won the game. The only good thing about the game was they didn't pass the ball a million times back to the keeper.
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