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[2013-08-09] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Mönchengladbach

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What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:30 pm

Bayern Munich will win
34
97%
It will end in a draw
1
3%
Borussia Mönchengladbach will win
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 35

Re: [2013-08-09] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Mönchengladbach

Postby MaCk0y » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:40 pm

Mueller missed penalty. :( Ribery's performance. :D
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Re: [2013-08-09] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Mönchengladbach

Postby YlonenXabi » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:33 pm

I'm not saying Kroos had a bad game, but if we want Martinez back to the starting lineup then one of our players must be benched :)

But we will see how this 4-1-4-1 evolve in the next few games
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Re: [2013-08-09] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Mönchengladbach

Postby Robb3449 » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:37 pm

That's about as exciting an opening match as it gets, especially early in the 2nd half when it was "end to end" for a while. A little too exciting at points but, 3 points is certainly satisfying. Great performance from Ribery (surely MOTM). Alaba, Lahm, Kroos, Mandzu, Robben all played well.

Lots of chances for Gladbach but, as many have already stated, they always give Bayern a tough match and they counter well just lack the finishing touch on many occasions. I think Kruse can help with that as long as he avoids hitting his teammates with shots. :P

I really like what (little) I've seen of Kirchoff. Nothing spectacular and he's certainly not displacing anyone but, he's been really solid when given his opportunities. Future looks bright for him.
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Re: [2013-08-09] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Mönchengladbach

Postby MoFattal » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:39 pm

I would sat it was a very decent start to the season. We definitely were a bit exposed defensively, but that is perfectly normal early in a system change. Plus, Basti was far from his top form tonight. In the end, we got the 3 points and it wasn't that difficult of a game.

Mandukic, Ribery and Kroos had a very good game. Basti, Dante and Muller had a bit of a poor one.
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Re: [2013-08-09] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Mönchengladbach

Postby Bazi » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:52 pm

I think it's hard and unfair to pass too many individual judgments on the player's performances tonight. Clearly we didn't work as good collectively as Guardiola envisions us to do on the long run. That's what Philipp Lahm said, we're developing well but we can get a lot better still and that's exactly what we saw tonight.

This was a work in progress. Still we achieved a deserved 3-1 victory (scored all 4 goals, too) over a team that is a lot better than the 8th place from last season indicates. Especially with Kruse and Rafael stepping up their offensive play considerably. A lot of players like Lahm and Dante got exposed today by Mönchengladbach, not individually but because we didn't work collectively in central midfield. Plus let's be honest for a moment. At times I thought we faced a Champions League participant. So good was Borussia Mönchengladbach's performance. Especially at the beginning of the 2nd half where I wondered whether they were going to play a bad pass or give up a 2nd ball situation at all. That was a class act and they are going to give Schalke and Leverkusen a hard fight for the international places.

That being said we still won deservedly. Ter Stegen and the post denied two brilliant Toni Kroos efforts and then we're talking about a 5-1 victory.
Nevertheless this shouldn't hide our own deficits and there are still a few things I would personally take away from this game:

Manuel Neuer is the best goalkeeper in the world and we can rely on him as long as the team hasn't mastered Pep's vision of collective football. He's just a master of his craft at everything he does. Btw, did anybody else see his murderous facial expression after Dante made the own goal? Priceless. :lol:

We need a midfielder to partner Toni Kroos on the #8 position! Thomas Müller is a sham there. Much too offensive and shaky in possession, poor Phiipp Lahm faced dire situations countless times and was exposed a lot. At one time between the 50th and the 60th minute it even looked as if CM was dissolved. The other side with David Alaba and Toni Kroos looked so much better. I expect Thiago Alcantara or later Mario Götze to take over this position and solve the problem. Pep do us all a favor and play Müller on the right wing, up-front or not at all!

Which leads me to my next point. **** the haters Pep! Line up Lahm in midfield and play Rafinha as RB as long as Thiago and Götze are out! Even though we were 3-1 up and the tension was lower, we looked so much better, more organized and safer as soon as Lahm took over Müller's spot! This was a spot-on assessment from Pep to use our captain there as long as the alternatives are not ready.

Tonight looked bad at times for Bastian Schweinsteiger as our lone holding midfielder. He has a lot of questions to answer regarding his ability to fill that spot. He just doesn't possess the aura of Javi Martínez aka "the Kraken" to dispossess opponents effortlessly. However as always the holding midfielder is the screwed one as soon as the collective play doesn't work 100%. It was like this under Heynckes when Schweinsteiger was partnered up with Gustavo and had to do all the build-up on his own. In the 4-1-4-1 it's more about the defensive effort and Schweinsteiger was alone all too often as soon as Müller was in no-man's land. Still what I disliked individually were a lot of the 2nd ball situations when he looked slow and out of position. That's where we were so good last year. We had almost no 2nd ball situations for the enemy to speak of but it's too early to pass a final judgment.

The offensive with the exception of Müller looked sharp, motivated and brilliantly connected. I was a little surprised how well Mandzukic fit in. Müller needs to play wide or up-front but as mentioned above. He can't play on the #8 the way he did against Gladbach. That was terrible on both ends.
The star of the match though was clearly the Frenchman. Franck Ribéry displayed a stellar performance. There is no indication whatsoever that he might decline or get slower anytime soon. I've got a feeling he desperately wants that Ballon d'Or and he quite possibly deserves it. He's definitely the Bundesliga's best player.

Most importantly: David Alaba is such a cool dude. Getting silenced by Guardiola for wanting the penalty from Müller. Then Thomas fails and Alaba without a hint of nervousness hits it home. Is there anything you can't like about David Alaba?

We won, yay.
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Re: [2013-08-09] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Mönchengladbach

Postby Firefox1234 » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:15 am

Since Bazi pretty much stole everyone's thunder :wink: im just gonna write down a couple points:
1.As i expected Muller was invisible playing centrally in a 4-1-4-1 it just doesnt suit him since he doesnt have enough freedom to do what he does best and that is to be unpredictable and nearly unmarkable.
2.Robben and Ribery were killing it today and looked like they were gonna score or set someone up to score every time they touched the ball imo. Mandzukic played very well and it will be interesting if Pep will still bench him once Thiago and Gotze come back.
3.Defensively things still need to be patched up but im confident that will be attained as the season progresses
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Re: [2013-08-09] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Mönchengladbach

Postby walter » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:40 am

YlonenXabi wrote:I'm not saying Kroos had a bad game, but if we want Martinez back to the starting lineup then one of our players must be benched :)

But we will see how this 4-1-4-1 evolve in the next few games


The game flows through Kroos, if you wanna bench someone to have Martinez play it should be Mandzukic (Muller taking his place).
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Re: [2013-08-09] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Mönchengladbach

Postby walter » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:53 am

Tonight looked bad at times for Bastian Schweinsteiger as our lone holding midfielder. He has a lot of questions to answer regarding his ability to fill that spot. He just doesn't possess the aura of Javi Martínez aka "the Kraken" to dispossess opponents effortlessly.


too much space to cover defensively because none of the players ahead of him in the field were quick enough to help defend. As great as Robbery were today I wonder if they forgot the lessons learned from Don Jupp.
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Re: [2013-08-09] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Mönchengladbach

Postby Robb3449 » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:40 am

Sorry if this is off-topic but, Bayern are really gaining attention in the U.S. They had their own spot on Sportscenter here in the states. A "somewhat" complete recap (with the Press Pass guys) of today's match. Usually, the only thing you'll see from any European footie match (other than the CL final) is a "Top Play" highlight. With preseason football starting, pennant races in baseball, and the PGA Championship going on right now I was completely shocked and happy to see ESPN devote an entire segment to FCB. Well done! =D>
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Re: [2013-08-09] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Mönchengladbach

Postby runaway » Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:58 am

Robb3449 wrote:Sorry if this is off-topic but, Bayern are really gaining attention in the U.S. They had their own spot on Sportscenter here in the states. A "somewhat" complete recap (with the Press Pass guys) of today's match. Usually, the only thing you'll see from any European footie match (other than the CL final) is a "Top Play" highlight. With preseason football starting, pennant races in baseball, and the PGA Championship going on right now I was completely shocked and happy to see ESPN devote an entire segment to FCB. Well done! =D>


That's great news. Maybe it's because of the treble it but I'm leaning towards Pep's tactics are always interesting and worth analyzing. :wink:
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Re: [2013-08-09] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Mönchengladbach

Postby MUTU » Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:53 am

walter wrote:
YlonenXabi wrote:I'm not saying Kroos had a bad game, but if we want Martinez back to the starting lineup then one of our players must be benched :)

But we will see how this 4-1-4-1 evolve in the next few games


The game flows through Kroos, if you wanna bench someone to have Martinez play it should be Mandzukic (Muller taking his place).

Agreed. This 4-1-4-1 suits Kroos more than Mueller in midfield. If either of them has to be benched to make place for Mandzukic/Goetze up front, then I'd rather it's Mueller. With the way Robben's playing, it's going to be hard for him to get displaced on the wing\

I really don't think Mueller will be ever-present this season. I love him, but the competition is just so hot.
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Re: [2013-08-09] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Mönchengladbach

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:01 am

I agree everything said here especially about Muller in that position. (He has already been deployed there...) and the mysterious 4-1-4-1 system. I've already said in many threads that 1 DM is not enough to dominate the big boys.
About the pen(s) I think we broke a record :)
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Re: [2013-08-09] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Mönchengladbach

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:08 am

I agree with everyone saying we allowed too many chances but hey, last time we played they scored 3 times!

I am getting impatient with the 4-1-4-1. I wouldn't mind it if Schweini was playing in the 4 with Martinez or Gustavo behind him, because that's similar to a 4-2-3-1, but that's not what we're doing right now. I can see some reasons why Pep prefers this formation but on the whole I feel safer with a 4-2-3-1. You'll excuse me for being a bit premature but it is my favourite formation after all.

I think our best lineup is either the one that played the CL final, or else with Kroos instead of Muller or Mandzukic. Certainly Robben, who I criticized a lot in the past, must play. Not because he scored the CL winner, but because he has clearly been our best player since Guardiola took over. Well done and thank you for silencing me, Arjen! =D>

Thiago will be #1 backup for Schweini and even Kroos. And we'll rotate, so he'll get enough playing time. Gotze I'm not sure where he would fit in. Maybe instead of Muller/Kroos...
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Re: [2013-08-09] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Mönchengladbach

Postby envagyokazapad » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:58 am

It's hard to say what will happen to Müller, because he probably had his worst game in months, so can't really judge him by this. He looked completely lost though which is a little worrying. I think with Kroos, Thiago and Götze, it will be really hard to maintain his starting position, especially with Mandzukic upping his game. His best shot could be improving in the CF position and trying to displace Mandzukic, displacing Kroos / Götze / Robben would be significantly harder imo...(but then again we haven't seen Götze, and until he gets completely fit and ready to play full matches, it will probably be some time)

One thing I've also been worried about is Schweini, I don't think he's suitable to play this position, or at least Martinez would be better there, and if we have to move him up the pitch, he's going to have lots of competition there...he's probably not 100% fit yet, so we'll see how much he improves, but I'm still heavily in favor of keeping last years DM duo with Schweini and Martinez (after all we have 3 world class players for these 2 positions). I think playing like this just won't bring us the same stability and balance we had last year, which is vital when it comes to winning the championship.
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Re: [2013-08-09] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Mönchengladbach

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:33 am

I am also worried about the fact that Muller might lose his touch for NT...
I don't want to be apocalyptical here but I am afraid that with this 4-1-4-1 we aren't going anywhere.
We have too many players who seem lost ... Dante, Martinez, Schweinsteiger, Muller ...
Lahm is not always sure were to play... I am so :?
Our df was exposed yest so I can't imagine what will happen in the CHL!
I think Pep's goal is to get us where barca were! With 72-80% possession (cause this tact is only fruitful when you have a lot of poss)
Fast countering teams will tear us apart (like Chelsea for example)
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