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[2015-10-04] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Discussions on the German Bundesliga matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:30 pm

Bayern Munich will win
8
73%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Borussia Dortmund will win
3
27%
 
Total votes : 11

Re: [2015-10-04] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby RedQueen » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:19 am

So that proves they were encouraged at Barca, and that he introduced them to Bayern, where they were unheard of until he arrived. Alright :D

Maybe while you're at it you should do a keyword search for the 11 passes or something that are necessary for a successful transition from defence to attack. It's in the early chapters of the book.

Have to leave that discussion now. It's late and I have to get up early.
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Re: [2015-10-04] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby pyrasur » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:24 am

Please don't be bitter that your arguments are questioned just because you bring zero evidence to back up your statements and then ask others to disprove them. It sounds a lot like you are the guru that can't be questioned.
而剑法的最高境界,则是手中无剑,心中也无剑,是以大胸怀,包容一切。那便是不杀,便是和平。-英雄
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Re: [2015-10-04] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby Dumbledore7 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:25 am

RedQueen wrote:The more the team plays like Pep wants it, or the more Pep adapts to the strengths of his players and the weaknesses of our opponents? Weren't long balls like Boateng's today off limits at Barca?


Why does this have to matter? If Pep has adapted to the strengths of the players, wouldn't that mean he would be asking and wanting them to play these long balls? Of course he doesn't introduce long balls to Bayern but it is very much like a new addition to our current system and surely is a welcome, refreshing change. Now that that change has been made do we really need to go back to talking about how it was before?
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Re: [2015-10-04] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby Korab » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:32 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:
RedQueen wrote:The more the team plays like Pep wants it, or the more Pep adapts to the strengths of his players and the weaknesses of our opponents? Weren't long balls like Boateng's today off limits at Barca?


Why does this have to matter? If Pep has adapted to the strengths of the players, wouldn't that mean he would be asking and wanting them to play these long balls? Of course he doesn't introduce long balls to Bayern but it is very much like a new addition to our current system and surely is a welcome, refreshing change. Now that that change has been made do we really need to go back to talking about how it was before?

Another impaired reasoning.
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Re: [2015-10-04] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby #12 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:42 am

I don't know exactly where each side is trying to get with this argument, therefore just a few key facts:

1.) Whoever says that what we see right now, is what we saw the last two years is plain wrong... Guardiola made several adjustments (like the non-inverted :P wingers, different approaches to hich pressing and space coverage, different alignment in the center,...)

2.) Whoever says that Guardiola has nothing to do with it is wrong either... He has adapted, he's showing flexibility... He's understanding this club better than ever before...

If you stuck to Guardiola from the beginning, you cannot seriously argue that this is what was introduced to Bayern from day one... If you didn't or don't like him you still can't say he's not adapting (and yes I was one of them)... So:

3.) Whoever insist either one is probably just trying to prove he's right one way or another and - most importantly - is just plain wrong...
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Re: [2015-10-04] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby PunkCapitalist » Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:56 am

Long balls from CBs are not that recent in Pep's Bayern. Dante used to send some great long balls to Müller back in the day (first season, I think). But yes, Pep is showing increasing tactical flexibility lately, which is great. I'll be relieved if Pep signs the extension.
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Re: [2015-10-04] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby rthebest » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:11 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:Long balls from CBs are not that recent in Pep's Bayern. Dante used to send some great long balls to Müller back in the day (first season, I think). But yes, Pep is showing increasing tactical flexibility lately, which is great. I'll be relieved if Pep signs the extension.


Yes , I remember Bayern used long balls against Dortmund in CL final in 2013.
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Re: [2015-10-04] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby RAJBAYERN » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:26 am

rthebest wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:Long balls from CBs are not that recent in Pep's Bayern. Dante used to send some great long balls to Müller back in the day (first season, I think). But yes, Pep is showing increasing tactical flexibility lately, which is great. I'll be relieved if Pep signs the extension.


Yes , I remember Bayern used long balls against Dortmund in CL final in 2013.


Robben goal came from a long pass of Boateng that receive Ribery and assist for the champions league trophy.

In Pep system, long balls or passes, as punkcapitalist wrote correctly, are being used since last season, but I saw Boateng trying this type of play than any others CB. In this season, Bayern have been more effectively in that type of plays.

When an opponent pressure you too high, with their lines close, long passes is the best option, because trying to open holes in the midfield with passes can cause a wrong pass and consequently the counter.
Last edited by RAJBAYERN on Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [2015-10-04] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby rthebest » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:27 am

#12 wrote:I don't know exactly where each side is trying to get with this argument, therefore just a few key facts:

1.) Whoever says that what we see right now, is what we saw the last two years is plain wrong... Guardiola made several adjustments (like the non-inverted :P wingers, different approaches to hich pressing and space coverage, different alignment in the center,...)

2.) Whoever says that Guardiola has nothing to do with it is wrong either... He has adapted, he's showing flexibility... He's understanding this club better than ever before...

If you stuck to Guardiola from the beginning, you cannot seriously argue that this is what was introduced to Bayern from day one... If you didn't or don't like him you still can't say he's not adapting (and yes I was one of them)... So:

3.) Whoever insist either one is probably just trying to prove he's right one way or another and - most importantly - is just plain wrong...


I agree 100%. When you watch Bayern matches from Pep's first year and compare them to this year or even last year you realize how much Bayern game has changed. Now the team is playing more fluid, and more flexible and faster. The first year was like a updated version of Van Gaal team still slow in build up , with inverted wingers. Right now our build up play is faster, we can attack through middle , use the wingers to cross , team can change system, or player can change position.
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Re: [2015-10-04] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby RodePiet » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:28 am

Yes, there is adaptation....question is....is it Pep or pressure from the higher powers?
Quite frankly I don't give a rat's ass....this fantastic squad is finally being used to it's true potential and I love what I see!!!
What I found hilarious was the TERRIBLE commentating from Owen Hargreaves and some other english D-bag who started off talking about how amazing BvB were in the first 15 minutes (looked to me that Bayern were trying to lure them in to counter...) and how they agreed with every ridiculous call the ref made against Bayern (Sokratis definitely drew heavily from the ancient Greek history of great drama and acting!!!)
only to then start talking about how impossible it is to beat Bayern after a few stunning goals....what a couple of idiots!!
I never saw BvB in control of this match and contrary to the bad commentary I watched, it was not bad defending from either team but the superiority of Bayern offense that won the game.
Can't wait to see the v Arsenal!!!
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Re: [2015-10-04] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby Bentonomo » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:04 am

OMG i love Javi :oops: he is such a monster.

So bayern is finally beating top of the league teams and at the same time guardiola is adapting and changing, is it a coincidence ?
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Re: [2015-10-04] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby Machiavellico » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:56 am

Pep defeats BvB 5-1 :
"We won 5-1 but still made a lot of mistakes. There's work to be done."
"The title isn't won today. We have to remain grounded."

Mourinho loses 1-3 against Southampton :
" if they sack me they sack the best manager this club has ever had."
"Referees are afraid to give decisions for Chelsea"

Hmm. And yet they say Pep is full of himself.
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Re: [2015-10-04] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby RedQueen » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:43 am

pyrasur wrote:Please don't be bitter that your arguments are questioned just because you bring zero evidence to back up your statements and then ask others to disprove them. It sounds a lot like you are the guru that can't be questioned.

I'm not "bitter", I'm actually quite amused (what does the smiley indicate again?) about users who suggest he played like that even at Barca (let alone he was the one who "introduced" long balls at Bayern). I just found the quote I was looking for:

Juego de Posición under Pep Guardiola | www.martinperarnau.com [source]


The team’s offensive ideas have a direct impact on their defensive work. Therefore, the team’s ideas in possession set the tone for all other aspects of the match. Guardiola even has a “15-pass rule,” in which he believes that his team cannot be properly prepared to cope with transitions or build a well structured attack until they have completed at least 15 passes.
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Re: [2015-10-04] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby JANCKER » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:55 am

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Whoa. Long balls. Pep you genius!
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Re: [2015-10-04] Bayern Munich vs Borussia Dortmund

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:54 am

RedQueen wrote:Everything was perfect from the start, nothing has ever been revised.

If that were the case, he wouldn't be a good coach, because however perfect something seems, it won't be so forever. That is why we needed a change after winning everything in the first place.

To me the difference between Pep believers and naysayers has always come down to this. Those who believe he is a genius who will find the right solution most of the time (mistakes have been made as we all know), and those who believe he is too stubborn and insists on not changing anything.

I know this was not your point and you were being sarcastic, but this sentence brought this point to mind.
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