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2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby RedQueen » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:45 pm

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/dayot-u ... ler/344695

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rb-leip ... rein/23826

RBL trusting their talents. Average squad age 23.3 if Sky is to be believed, and that's including two players over 30.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby DRvad14 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:49 pm

Bundesliga could end VAR trial period after early problems
The head of the video assistant referee (VAR) project in Germany has suggested that "unacceptable" problems with the new technology could ultimately bring a premature end to the trial period.

The Bundesliga is one of several leagues trialling the system this season, but major technical problems have overshadowed its arrival.

On Saturday, video officials were unable to contact their counterparts on the pitch during some games, and the lines used to help with offside decisions were not available at any of the matches.
VAR project head Hellmut Krug, a former referee, said he is already running out of patience after problems with the calibrated auxiliary lines also already occurred at the German Super Cup in early August.

"We can't go on like this week in, week out," Krug told Sky. "It's unacceptable, especially for the referees. If it continues like this, we have to think of something else."

Krug echoed a statement released by the German Football League at the weekend, which also deemed the ongoing problems "unacceptable."

He added that "many things are conceivable" if the problems cannot be solved.

"You could go back to the old way without VAR or look at a van solution like in Italy," Krug said.

In Germany, the VARs are based in a centralised Reply Centre in Cologne, whereas their Italian counterparts operate out of a broadcasting van near the stadium.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:28 pm

B04 are dominating TSGH.
OK the score is only 1-0 thanks to a penalty but the away team still have to have a shot on goal...
2.2

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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:07 pm

Badstuber scored

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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby MUTU » Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:19 pm

ramsej84 wrote:Badstuber scored

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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby RedQueen » Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:55 pm

So, Leverkusen managed to draw a game again they absolutely should have won.

Kampl on the bench today the entire game. I'm going out on a limb here and predict that by Thursday, he'll be gone. Seeing B04 fans in the Werkself forum calling for Völler's head already. And if this happens, rightfully so.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby Manchu » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:40 pm

RedQueen wrote:So, Leverkusen managed to draw a game again they absolutely should have won.

Kampl on the bench today the entire game. I'm going out on a limb here and predict that by Thursday, he'll be gone. Seeing B04 fans in the Werkself forum calling for Völler's head already. And if this happens, rightfully so.

Kampl is one of their best players. Why would they sell him?
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby RedQueen » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:54 pm

He wants out. He's furious they fired Roger Schmidt, who is a 2nd father to him. He was almost off to China to Roger's new club, until it failed because of the new Chinese transfer tax.

Leipzig are after him. And just to explain what that means. Kampl was a RB Salzburg player under Schmidt. He then moved to Leverkusen after a short stint in Dortmund, to play again under Schmidt. On top of it he used to play for Hasenhüttl in Aalen until he moved to Salzburg. He has been playing RB football for five years, he knows the coach, he knows the system inside out, he knows the club (because the set-up of Leipzig is the same as in Salzburg, they have the same DoF Salzburg had back then) and he has played with half the Leipzig team in Salzburg. Unlike all their other players, he has a considerable amount of CL experience, too. This transfer, if it happens, will be an almost guaranteed success. A great signing for Leipzig that will help them immediately.

Last night Rangnick was on a talkshow and was asked about the Kampl rumours. He basically confirmed that there are negotiations going on, although he pointed out it wasn't easy because it was Leverkusen. When he was asked whether Kampl will come, he just smiled the question away.

I don't know what to say. I used to enjoy watching Leverkusen in their first two seasons under Schmidt. Yes, they were infuriating at times because they kept bottling things. But they were such an interesting, colourful squad. No world class players, mind you, but good players, and each one had to offer something special. And on their good days, they played such an enjoyable brand of football under Schmidt. Now it's all falling apart. They've lost Toprak, Chicharito, Papadopoulos, Calhanoglu. All they've brought in is a bland Dominik Kohr and a perma-injured Sven Bender. And now it looks like they're about to lose Kampl, who I think is their best player. It's just sad. If Völler doesn't bring at least two quality players in, he should just take his hat.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby Manchu » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:40 pm

RedQueen wrote:I don't know what to say. I used to enjoy watching Leverkusen in their first two seasons under Schmidt. Yes, they were infuriating at times because they kept bottling things. But they were such an interesting, colourful squad. No world class players, mind you, but good players, and each one had to offer something special. And on their good days, they played such an enjoyable brand of football under Schmidt. Now it's all falling apart. They've lost Toprak, Chicharito, Papadopoulos, Calhanoglu. All they've brought in is a bland Dominik Kohr and a perma-injured Sven Bender. And now it looks like they're about to lose Kampl, who I think is their best player. It's just sad. If Völler doesn't bring at least two quality players in, he should just take his hat.

Goalimpact has Kampl as good enough to play in our midfield, Chicharitio as something really exceptional, and Brandt as the biggest talent in the world. If Kampl leaves this window and Brandt the next, Leverkusen will have managed to sell off it's three best players in two windows without replacement. I guess that the only thing I can say is that Neverkusen is going to Neverkusen.

On the subject of Brandt, he now has 4 assists and two pre-assistswithin the first three games of the season for Leverkusen despite only playing 163 minutes out of the possible 300. Leverkusen haven't scored a single goal he wasn't directly involved yet, much less a single goal when he wasn't on the pitch.

It breaks down to:
Away vs Karlsruher: 48 minutes of play, 2 assists, 1 pre-assist
Away vs Bayern: 44 minutes of play, 1 assist
Home vs Hoffenheim: 71 minutes of play, 1 assist(through a won penalty), one pre-assist.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby RedQueen » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:53 pm

I have my doubts about goalimpact, tbh, as it doesn't (and can't) consider the reverse impact - the influence of the system and the team on a player.

Kampl is a really special player in that he is both very flexible and very inflexible. He is very flexible concerning the position he plays; he can play 6/8 and wide 10 on both sides in the Rangnick 4-2-2-2 system. RS even played him as a 2nd striker at times. But he's kind of inflexible in regard to the system he plays in. He is an exceptional player in the Rangnick/RB system, but not necessarily in other systems, as Klopp found out in Dortmund.

Here's an interesting article on him: Kevin Kampl, The Unorthodox But Spectacular Midfielder Who's Thrived At Bayer Leverkusen | TTR

He's a monster of a player in a strongly pressing focused system, but I don't think he'd work in a Bayern midfield at all. I think Kampl knows that, it's not just a personal thing he's kept following Schmidt but also a question of fitting into the system. And it's all the more reason for him to leave Leverkusen under their new coach Heiko Herrlich and move to Leipzig. Because in Leipzig, as in all RB clubs, there won't ever be played another system as long as Rangnick is there.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby Manchu » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:01 pm

RedQueen wrote:I have my doubts about goalimpact, tbh, as it doesn't (and can't) consider the reverse impact - the influence of the system and the team on a player.

Kampl is a really special player in that he is both very flexible and very inflexible. He is very flexible concerning the position he plays; he can play 6/8 and wide 10 on both sides in the Rangnick 4-2-2-2 system. RS even played him as a 2nd striker at times. But he's kind of inflexible in regard to the system he plays in. He is an exceptional player in the Rangnick/RB system, but not necessarily in other systems, as Klopp found out in Dortmund.

Here's an interesting article on him: Kevin Kampl, The Unorthodox But Spectacular Midfielder Who's Thrived At Bayer Leverkusen | TTR

He's a monster of a player in a strongly pressing focused system, but I don't think he'd work in a Bayern midfield at all. I think Kampl knows that, it's not just a personal thing he's kept following Schmidt but also a question of fitting into the system. And it's all the more reason for him to leave Leverkusen under their new coach Heiko Herrlich and move to Leipzig. Because in Leipzig, as in all RB clubs, there won't ever be played another system as long as Rangnick is there.

Yeah, your right, goalimpact can tell if a player is good but not necessarily if they will fit in a system. That's why it's meant as a supplement for conventional scouting and not as a replacement. Usually when I say that "x player is good enough by goalimpact for our team," I mean that they have the quality to play for us, not necessarily the type of quality we need(because I would have to extensively scout a player to find out the latter). It's a subtle distinction because most players can easily slot into different systems.

However, I not sure where Kampl could fit in our team. The best role for him would seem to be as a "quasi-attacking mid" with freedom to press, but we don't really play with that position on our team, and I'm not advocating his transfer.

Still, I don't necessarily buy that Kampl didn't work on Klopp's team, despite not scoring or assisting very much from a winger position. Here's a goalimpact graph of Kampl I managed to find; it's old and from a previous version of the algorithm, so subtracting about 15 to 20 points is required to bring it in line with current values:
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As a general principle, increasing goalimpact means over performance and decreasing means underperformance. You might note that Kampl's goalimpact slightly increased when he was in Dortmund before having a slight performance decrease after he left.

However, Klopp's Dortmund was still a pressing team, so this doesn't prove that he could work well in any team.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby RedQueen » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:14 pm

Didn't know he was that high according to the old algorithm; 184 is a lot. Well, according to the latest reports he wants to move from Leverkusen to Leipzig by all means, Völler seems to be prepared to let him go, it's only a question of money. With the Keita deal, and RB apparently receiving an advancement, I suppose the transfer will go through.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby Manchu » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:25 pm

RedQueen wrote:Didn't know he was that high according to the old algorithm; 184 is a lot. Well, according to the latest reports he wants to move from Leverkusen to Leipzig by all means, Völler seems to be prepared to let him go, it's only a question of money. With the Keita deal, and RB apparently receiving an advancement, I suppose the transfer will go through.

Well, he would be probably be between 165 and 170 now, which would put him about where Neymar is. Here is the top 50 list under that algorithm, he's ranked as the 25th best player in the world and there are also three other players which passed through RB Salzburg on the list(Martin Hinteregger, Stefan Ilsanker, and André Ramalho) on the list. Generally, under the new algorithm, keepers gained, and everyone else lost, with maybe center backs losing the least. Still, excellent player no matter how you slice it and worth more to Leverkusen than whatever Voller is going to get.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby DRvad14 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:19 pm

Bundesliga's 50+1 rule must end for clubs to compete - Rummenigge
Bayern Munich CEO Karl-Heinz Rummenigge believes the Bundesliga has no choice but to scrap the 50+1 ownership rule to remain competitive in a "global" game.

The 50+1 rule, which stipulates that more than 50 percent of a club must be owned by its members, has come under increasing scrutiny, with officials from several clubs saying they feel the fight to keep it is being lost. The rule limits outside investment from rich benefactors as it is not possible for them to be anything other than a minority shareholder without a controlling stake.

Rummenigge wants every club to have the right to decide if it wants to follow a different business model.

"Personally, I am in favour of leaving it to every club to decide whether they open the door on outside capital," the Bayern chief said. "We are the only of the top five leagues with this luxury. We have a competition which I believe is not only national, but also global,"

Rummenigge also suggested that the Bundesliga would have little choice but to follow the Premier League, La Liga, Serie A and Ligue 1 if it is to stay competitive.Support for the rule has already declined, especially with the rise of RB Leipzig, who found ways of bypassing the rule despite effectively being owned by Austrian energy drink manufacturer Red Bull.

Leipzig have joined Bayer Leverkusen, Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim who are already not operating under the 50+1 rule, while Hannover are set to become the next team to receive an exception permit from the German Football League.

Investor Martin Kind, who made his fortune selling hearing-aids, can take control of Hannover after 20 years of uninterrupted and significant financial support, having been involved since 1997.
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Re: 2017/2018 Bundesliga Generic Discussion Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:29 pm

the others can do whatever they want... but the moment anyone outside Bavaria takes control (be it an American, Chinese, Arab or Russian) I will stop supporting the team!
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