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2012/2013 Bundesliga generic discussion thread

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Re: 2012/2013 Bundesliga generic discussion thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:17 pm

MUTU wrote:Actually, Klopp is right. And deep down, you know it too.


I agree that there are bigger chances for youths to develop there, but if they really are good enough to play for Germany, then they are certainly good enough to get their chances with Bayern, and at Bayern the expectations are much higher so it's a better preparation of what will be expected of them with the NT.

Of course, they have the Hummels case in their favour, but in most cases the really talented youths do get a chance with Bayern, especially in the last 3 years. I dare say we're becoming a little too obsessed with our own youths too.
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Re: 2012/2013 Bundesliga generic discussion thread

Postby quaazi » Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:39 pm

In fact I think it would be an interesting idea to see what region of Germany actually produces the best players, Bavaria or NRW (let's include Baden-Württemberg and East Germany in this list too actually) -

Bavarians

Goalkeepers - this is actually a real toughie, I can't think of a single Bavarian goalkeeper... none of Bayern, Nürnberg or Augsburg has a local goalie... I guess it'll have to be Fürth's goalie, Hesl.

Defenders - Badstuber, Lahm, Niedermeier, Lell

Midfielders - Schweni, Götze, Lars and Sven Bender, Träsch

Forwards - Müller, Kiessling

NRW

Goalkeepers - Neuer, Ter Stegen, Zieler, Wiese

Defenders - Hummels, Höwedes, Reinartz, Castro

Midfielders - Rolfes, Gündogan, Özil, Jansen, Holtby, Draxler, Grosskreutz

Forwards - Reus, Schlaudraff, Lasogga

Baden-Württemberg

Goalkeepers - Leno, Baumann, Ulreich

Defenders - Toprak (he still counts as German), Tasci

Midfielders - Khedira, Stindl

Forwards - Gomez, Schieber

East Germany (let's include the entirety of Berlin for the hell of it)

Goalkeepers - Adler, Fährmann

Defenders - Boateng, Schmelzer, Jantschke

Midfielders - Kroos, Bittencourt

Forwards - Petersen
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Re: 2012/2013 Bundesliga generic discussion thread

Postby quaazi » Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:41 pm

Oh, uh, conclusion? Well, NRW has the best goalkeepers, both have defenders generally on the same level, Bavaria has midfielders of better class, and both are fairly equal in offense.
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Re: 2012/2013 Bundesliga generic discussion thread

Postby MUTU » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:04 pm

Very nice analysis, but this wasn't a question of which region players are born in, but which clubs are capable of taking a player from a promising youngster to an international. Dortmund are doing this better. It doesn't matter whether they bought the youngsters or promoted them from their youths: what matters most is that they were more capable than Bayern of allowing their players to break into the NT. In the last 2.5 years, Dortmund brought 6 new players for the German NT (Schmelzer, Sven Bender, Grosskreutz, Goetze, Gundogan, Hummels). In the same timeframe, Bayern had only Badstuber. And this with a smaller budget.

Who knows, maybe had Petersen signed for Dortmund instead he could have been in the Euro 2012 squad.
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Re: 2012/2013 Bundesliga generic discussion thread

Postby Element » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:17 pm

MUTU wrote:Very nice analysis, but this wasn't a question of which region players are born in, but which clubs are capable of taking a player from a promising youngster to an international. Dortmund are doing this better. It doesn't matter whether they bought the youngsters or promoted them from their youths: what matters most is that they were more capable than Bayern of allowing their players to break into the NT. In the last 2.5 years, Dortmund brought 6 new players for the German NT (Schmelzer, Sven Bender, Grosskreutz, Goetze, Gundogan, Hummels). In the same timeframe, Bayern had only Badstuber. And this with a smaller budget.

Who knows, maybe had Petersen signed for Dortmund instead he could have been in the Euro 2012 squad.

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Re: 2012/2013 Bundesliga generic discussion thread

Postby quaazi » Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:28 pm

MUTU wrote:Very nice analysis, but this wasn't a question of which region players are born in, but which clubs are capable of taking a player from a promising youngster to an international.

I know, I was just going on my own tangent.
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Re: 2012/2013 Bundesliga generic discussion thread

Postby MUTU » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:10 pm

Element wrote:
MUTU wrote:Very nice analysis, but this wasn't a question of which region players are born in, but which clubs are capable of taking a player from a promising youngster to an international. Dortmund are doing this better. It doesn't matter whether they bought the youngsters or promoted them from their youths: what matters most is that they were more capable than Bayern of allowing their players to break into the NT. In the last 2.5 years, Dortmund brought 6 new players for the German NT (Schmelzer, Sven Bender, Grosskreutz, Goetze, Gundogan, Hummels). In the same timeframe, Bayern had only Badstuber. And this with a smaller budget.

Who knows, maybe had Petersen signed for Dortmund instead he could have been in the Euro 2012 squad.

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Mueller made his debut over 2.5 years ago, no?
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Re: 2012/2013 Bundesliga generic discussion thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:09 pm

quaazi wrote:In fact I think it would be an interesting idea to see what region of Germany actually produces the best players, Bavaria or NRW (let's include Baden-Württemberg and East Germany in this list too actually) -

From that list I'd say NRW is clearly the superior region.
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Re: 2012/2013 Bundesliga generic discussion thread

Postby quaazi » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:49 pm

It also has five million more people living there.
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Re: 2012/2013 Bundesliga generic discussion thread

Postby München Minded » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:26 pm

But Bavaria is prettier, does that count?
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Re: 2012/2013 Bundesliga generic discussion thread

Postby tflags » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:43 pm

If it wasn't for two Dortmund players this season we wouldn't be having this conversation; Kawaga and Lewandowski. Those two had nothing to do with their youth academy and one of them wasn't even scouted. And yes, they miss out on their own young prodigies as well. Reus' case in point for raising my voice out loud.
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Re: 2012/2013 Bundesliga generic discussion thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:47 pm

tflags wrote:If it wasn't for two Dortmund players this season we wouldn't be having this conversation; Kawaga and Lewandowski. Those two had nothing to do with their youth academy and one of them wasn't even scouted. And yes, they miss out on their own young prodigies as well. Reus' case in point for raising my voice out loud.

Exactly =D>
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Re: 2012/2013 Bundesliga generic discussion thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:21 pm

Naldo to join Wolfsburg. He's a decent CB imo.

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/clubf ... 65137.html
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Re: 2012/2013 Bundesliga generic discussion thread

Postby BayernLove » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:55 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Naldo to join Wolfsburg. He's a decent CB imo.

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/clubf ... 65137.html

Man, Wolfsburg is building themselves a formidable team for next season! They might well be a surprise package for Europe!
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Re: 2012/2013 Bundesliga generic discussion thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:18 pm

A lot depends on Magath. He's a great coach but he seems to have lost it lately.
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